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A meeting aboard Bethlehem Station

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A meeting aboard Bethlehem Station
Offline RedEclipse
09-17-2014, 09:47 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-17-2014, 09:48 PM by RedEclipse.)
#11
Phoenix Godfather
Posts: 1,620
Threads: 178
Joined: Nov 2008

As representatives shared their thoughts, Burton sum up what come into his mind and continued.

"McCool, you are indeed right - we aren't interested in illegal actions around our stations. But my thoughts are - civilians have much more chances, guarantees to be in safe while being attacked nearby of station, having ability to dock swiftly on one of ours installations, in case of threat.

Time showed we cant really enforce NFZ, it's bringing useless bureaucracy and most usually proofs lack of details, which may show the situation in taken out of aspect. Nothing stop pirates to do their dirty job, house laws nor NFZ is not their guide."


Burton took his glass and drink some water, though he just wanted to empty the glass and get something more serious than just water. Then Burton turned to Admiral and continued:

"As for your purpose, Admiral... Your idea to restrict capital ships access for Phoenix and Ingenuus Research Group is reasonable... Furthermore its to what I'm agree. Perhaps, Freeport two representative is also interested in this exception."
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Offline Arioch
09-19-2014, 09:14 AM,
#12
Retired Zoner Overlord
Posts: 1,938
Threads: 219
Joined: May 2011

Looking around, and hearing the others concerns, specifically over the NFZ, he thought some more, whilst sipping more whiskey.

"Very valid points you all bring t' ta table. I do have t' agree, that it is very difficult t' maintain a concrete NFZ that actually works. While none of us want t' see endless fighting around our stations, we also can't be there in person, or have security enforces there 24/7. I think an idea of a NFZ may be somethin' we can strike off ta list, though with some caveats.

For instance, ta use of jumpships within a certain radius around our three stations is reasonable, should we need t' reach our stations quicker than being escorted through Liberty space. One concern of mine, specifically around Bethlehem, is ta increased activity of pirates shooting civilians, and then attempting t' sell ta stolen cargo on our station. I won't abide by it, and have taken steps t' stop such actions. But having patrols increased in ta area would be beneficial Admiral, as I'm sure this is not affecting just Zoners. Any pirating of civilians or corporations in ta area that are importing and exporting in Liberty surely is a sting that could have economical ramifications should that increase.


Taking a pause, he took another sip of whiskey before buzzing an attendant to pour him some more, as well as offer some to his guests.

My request then, as a replacement t' a NFZ, is that any naval activity around our stations are made known t' us. That it is fully documented and captured by audio or visual logs, and sent t' us. That way not only will you be dealing with said illegals, but we can take matters into our hands as well against those threatening the peace around said stations. Of course, I would still recommend ta clause remain that just because someone is potentially affiliated with illegal organizations, that ta peace still be kept. Should someone be breaking ta law at ta time of your arrival, and you either have reports of that specific time or have witnessed said illegal activity in person, then that would be a suitable circumstance with which t' engage or place said pilots or captains under arrest.

Lastly, I am in agreement with Mr. Doria's statement, that an exception be made with ta trade embargo so resources can be imported and exported from Freeport 2. Surely that is reasonable.

Now, since we are in agreement that a NFZ is no longer relevant, is there anything else you all wish t' add or change, before we proceed with creating a rough draft?"


Looking around at everyone at the table, he smiled and waited for the others to voice their opinions.

[Image: drrobe.gif]
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Offline Teerin
09-19-2014, 02:28 PM,
#13
Member
Posts: 898
Threads: 102
Joined: Apr 2012

Taking in all their replies, Rohj contemplated what he'd say for a moment, then spoke, "Doria, you mentioned passage through Texas to Bering. Where from, and with what sort of ships will you be supplying the Freeport?"

He turned to McCool with a confused look on his face, "The embargo has never effected Freeport Two, only goods moving beyond it to Rheinland territory and a handful of commodities coming in from it ... "

"I can speak with the Chief of Police about increasing patrols around Bethlehem and perhaps Ames as well. You do realize however, that most 'potentially affiliated' persons already fly illegal vessels, and are thus breaking the law? I'm fine with that; such a clarification won't allow for those Rogue vermin to play innocent so easily. We'll just have to worry about non-directly affiliated freelance pirates piloting legal ships then."


"You see what your knowledge tells you you're seeing. ... how, what you think the universe is, and how you react to that in everything you do, depends on what you know. And when that knowledge changes, for you, the universe changes. And that is as true for the whole of society as that is for the individual. We all are what we know, today. What we knew yesterday, was different; and so were we."
- James Burke, The Day the Universe Changed (1985)
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Offline Bering Shipping Inc.
09-21-2014, 12:49 PM,
#14
Member
Posts: 31
Threads: 4
Joined: Feb 2014



"Well, Admiral... First, as I said, I never had problems with Navy pilots, they all comprehend the law very well and even escorted me to the station sometimes, as I have mentioned... The real problem is with some, how can I say..., some LPI officers with less knowledge of Liberty law than your Navy pilots. They tend to create fines that are not on your legal charts..."

Tony threw out a fake smile, clearly unconfotable with the situation of having to use euphemisms to describe what is plain and clear corruption and bribery. He then continued:

"But, Admiral, by having this item explicitly written down to this treaty, that Zoner ships are allowed to supply the Freeport in Bering, this kind of misinterpretation of the embargo law can easily be erased."

Tony now thought about Teerin's questions about origins and cargo of the ships going to FP2.

"About your question, Admiral... Well, our company is small, we currently have only a couple transports and a few snubs for escort. In fact, Bering Shipping started with only my Border Worlds Transport and a Marauder fighter. The BWT is the ship used to supply the Freeport, since it can easily work in House space. We carry basic supplies for the station only, we do not operate as a cargo hub or storage. As for origins of the cargo, it's basically from Liberty itself, since it's close and therefore cheap... Now and then we bring some Kyushu rice and Sake, or some other type of food for our bar. People get bored real fast with biodome synthfood. Recently we acquired a Zoner Whale transport, but she does not operate in Liberty, it's mainly for the Omegas and Omicrons..."

[Image: n6u2HmP.png]
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Offline Teerin
10-13-2014, 03:19 AM,
#15
Member
Posts: 898
Threads: 102
Joined: Apr 2012

"A valid point," commented the Admiral, as Doria went on.

He stated, "About your question, [...] mainly for the Omegas and Omicrons."

"Ah, that's okay then," Teerin replied. He looked towards Finn for a response to his earlier query.


"You see what your knowledge tells you you're seeing. ... how, what you think the universe is, and how you react to that in everything you do, depends on what you know. And when that knowledge changes, for you, the universe changes. And that is as true for the whole of society as that is for the individual. We all are what we know, today. What we knew yesterday, was different; and so were we."
- James Burke, The Day the Universe Changed (1985)
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Offline Arioch
10-24-2014, 03:39 PM,
#16
Retired Zoner Overlord
Posts: 1,938
Threads: 219
Joined: May 2011

As Finn walked back into the conference room, he sat back down and spoke to his audience.

"Apologies for ta delay. Back t' matters at hand. Of course those whom are directly breaking Liberty law can be prosecuted or arrested. What I wish t' avoid though is trigger happy pilots in any official capacity t' fire upon those they deem breaking ta law, when in fact they are perfectly within their right t' dock aboard our stations. While our stations reside near or within Liberty proper, our enemies are not ta same as yours, and as such we are not as strict in our friends or guests."

He paused while he buzzed in one of his assistants. As she walked in, she handed Finn a datapad, which he promptly began typing on.

"My guests, I am sending you all ta first initial draft of ta Treaty of Bethlehem. Please look it over, and then provide your thoughts."

[Image: l01Es15.png]


[Image: drrobe.gif]
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Offline Teerin
10-29-2014, 07:48 PM,
#17
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Posts: 898
Threads: 102
Joined: Apr 2012

"I would be interested to see a clause barring Rheinland Military vessels from docking and mooring on Freeport Two for the remaining duration of our conflict with them. Unless they are experiencing a non-combat emergency and are able to prove it, of course." requested the Fleet Admiral. "It's frustrating to see a supposedly neutral base being utilized as a forward operations installation."

Teerin continued, "As for what's already there, I think item four of section two needs clarification. To fulfill what was discussed in here earlier ... " he glanced down at a copy of the Zoner Administrative Regulations in front of him, " ... specific exemptions for Zoner Laws 1.0, 2.1, 2.5, 5.0, 7.0, and perchance 9.0, should be made to allow for Liberty Forces to pursue their job enforcing legislation, as outlined in the Laws of the Republic Liberty."

"This would clear up any ambiguity in what can and cannot be done. Liberty Forces violations of 3.0 should not warrant destruction of their ships, but instead a complaint filed towards the Secretary of Defense. Laws 2.0, 2.2, 4.0, 6.0, in addition to all of the rest, shall of course be respected by the Government of Liberty," he said, after taking a deep breath.

He began to wish he had some of McCool's alcohol on hand. Pausing for a moment, he went on with his unintentionally long speech, "As for the Confederation of Freeports stations - Bethlehem and Freeport Two? - there are a different set of laws for exemptions to be made. It would seem that 2A, 2B, 2C, and 3 fit both bases, while a few more may be necessary for Bethlehem; 5, 6, 7, and again possibly 10. Freeport Two does not require those exceptions, given the status of Bering."

"This may seem to be a lot, but I assure you that it is quite reasonable,"
he concluded.


"You see what your knowledge tells you you're seeing. ... how, what you think the universe is, and how you react to that in everything you do, depends on what you know. And when that knowledge changes, for you, the universe changes. And that is as true for the whole of society as that is for the individual. We all are what we know, today. What we knew yesterday, was different; and so were we."
- James Burke, The Day the Universe Changed (1985)
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Offline Bering Shipping Inc.
10-30-2014, 02:38 AM,
#18
Member
Posts: 31
Threads: 4
Joined: Feb 2014




Tony listened while Teerin started his long ramble about Zoner laws... Soon, he regreted not having a drink of the whiskey McCool brought in. He decided that it was better late than never.

"Ahn, well... I think I am going to have a shot of that scotch after all, Finn."

He grabbed a glass and poured some whiskey on it, and had a small sip. "Good stuff!" - he thought. While the Admiral continued talking, he gradually took greater sips of his drink, until the glass was empty. Just as Teerin was finishing. Tony then said:

"Well, Admiral, I dont think there is any need to rewrite half the articles of all Zoner laws in existance. In my view, there is no need to any change at all... Let me explain to you how I see it."

Tony checked in his datapad the text of the laws refered by Teerin.

"Well, first about the matter of Rheinland ships using FP2 as an operation point. Both laws, the general Zoner one and the Confederation one, say in their article 4: Use of stations to stage attacks against any group is prohibited. Besides that, no Rheiland ship has even been near the station for some time. Apparently they are using Hudson as passage now, on their rare incursions into Liberty."

Tony looked at the empty glass on the table, then continued:

"And about all those exemptions, they are not needed, Admiral. The Zoners general law says right at the start: The following are laws which apply to Zoner installations which do not make their own set of laws publicly known. That means that each Administrator has autonomy of his own jurisdiction. The Confederation Law does not list it, but in its Internal Statute this autonomy is also granted, as long as I don't turn the station into a black market shopping or something. So, from the moment this Treaty is published, and the Confederation is notified, the Liberty vessels will be allowed to operate inside the boundaries stipulated by us today..."

As he had finished to explain his point of view, he reached for a cigarette, lighting it up. He then served himself more whiskey.
[Image: tWS5Nh9.png]

"You don't mind if I smoke, do you?"

[Image: n6u2HmP.png]
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Offline Teerin
11-19-2014, 03:50 AM,
#19
Member
Posts: 898
Threads: 102
Joined: Apr 2012

Doria spoke some, then paused to take a look at his datapad for a moment. "Well, first about the matter of Rheinland ships using FP2 as an operation point. Both laws, the general Zoner one and the Confederation one, say in their article 4: Use of stations to stage attacks against any group is prohibited. Besides that, no Rheiland ship has even been near the station for some time. Apparently they are using Hudson as passage now, on their rare incursions into Liberty."

Teerin grimaced at the administrator's lack of knowledge on Rheinland fleet movements, but put that thought aside. Before he could speak in response to the first part of what the man had said however, he continued, "And about all those exemptions, they are not needed, Admiral. The Zoners general law says right at the start: The following are laws which apply to Zoner installations which do not make their own set of laws publicly known. That means that each Administrator has autonomy of his own jurisdiction. The Confederation Law does not list it, but in its Internal Statute this autonomy is also granted, as long as I don't turn the station into a black market shopping or something. So, from the moment this Treaty is published, and the Confederation is notified, the Liberty vessels will be allowed to operate inside the boundaries stipulated by us today..."

"So long as what I've been asking for - which was agreed on - is publicly announced alongside this treaty by each station then, I suppose we're fine in that regard," responded Teerin. He considered mentioning that no laws had to be 'completely rewritten', just exceptions noted like this anyway, but that would be too counterproductive at this point. "Any thoughts from you, Mister Burton?"

Doria briefly interjected with, "You don't mind if I smoke, do you?"

"Actually yes, yes I do mind," replied the Admiral, short on patience.


"You see what your knowledge tells you you're seeing. ... how, what you think the universe is, and how you react to that in everything you do, depends on what you know. And when that knowledge changes, for you, the universe changes. And that is as true for the whole of society as that is for the individual. We all are what we know, today. What we knew yesterday, was different; and so were we."
- James Burke, The Day the Universe Changed (1985)
Reply  
Offline RedEclipse
11-23-2014, 06:12 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-23-2014, 06:13 PM by RedEclipse.)
#20
Phoenix Godfather
Posts: 1,620
Threads: 178
Joined: Nov 2008

Christian smiled to Tony pernicious habit, as in deep region of space oxygen has sometimes same value as gold.

I don't mind, though it's not so rational usage of oxygen on space station.

Then Christian turned to the Admiral, shrugged his shoulders and continued.

Conflict between Liberty of Rheinland is not so well known for us, due to our remote location to this region, furthermore we tend to avoid warzones. But, according to what I've heard - Rheinland itself burned all their bridges to the Bering system by destroying a jumpgate, thus I can't find a reason why Liberty should worry about presence of Rhienland forces in said system.

Christian looked round representatives, took a breath and continued.

After all, as Tony pointed before on Zoner Laws, if any vessel, which are using Zoner installation against someone should be sanctioned, of course with proper proof of illegal actions, not so big paperwork.

As In general point of view, this draft looks good for me. Though, I'd like to mention in paragraph 2.4 "respect and abide Zoner laws which put in power of selected station", to avoid double-reading of same treaty, each station could have own rules of own regulation.

He's leaned back in the seat, took his glass and sip some water, and put glass back.

Gentlemen, lets sum up what you don't like in this draft and you think it's should be changed. I guess we have more things to discuss than limit our talks on Rheinlanders
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