The DaemonS and The Seraphim

[Thyrzul]

So...any ship strong enough to effectively fight back against a Navy "Upholder"...?
Thats oppression...
Wait...this is LIBERTY...what do you expect.

Majority of the Bretonian shipline is strong enough to effectively fight back against a Navy Upholder. Bretonian ships are not forbidden to be flown in Liberty space. Your arguement is invalid. Try applying your logic less on your personal feelings and more on actual facts and you may sound less stupid in the future.

1, How can you go check the rules, if you dont know there are any?
(Excepting, of course, the ones that pop up in-game about PvP encounters)

Basic logic: Most of us live in a civilized society, assuming you do as well, given that you can use computers, can write on this forum, etc. There are always rules in every community to ensure civilized existence and a moderate-to-high degree of order. It should be a default to look for them.

2, Why are the rules not presented to the player BEFORE he/she joins the server, or after...?
(The rules should be presented in the same way taht rules are presented on other media. A warning, a note, whatever. It could even be something that your ship STARTS with, like the "welcome to Discovery" thing, calling it SERVER RULES might be a good idea.)

1.) URL link to the forums is presented in the server description you can see at the bottom when selecting the server. From there, if you follow basic logic I explained above, it shouldn't be too hard/shouldn't take too long to find rules.

2.) As others already pointed out, one of the starting commodities contains the rules. If you look for rules, you find rules.

3.) You can visit the forums any time you want for some guidance, especially if you are actually looking for the rules.

3, Going on the basis that the player doesnt know the rules, or even knows that they exist, why would that player believe ANYTHING that was told to them in-game?
(Anyone who flies up and says "oh, this is against the rules, blah blah blah, leave Liberty Space or be destroyed" could actually be LYING, and just trying to be a complete git. There are people like that in EVERY game, hassling the new players.)

Despite detailing in my previous responses why we shouldn't "go on the basis that the player doesn't know the rules, or even knows that they exist", let's just do that for now. It is highly advised to believe anybody with an [Admin] or [Angel] name tag in cases like this. Should somebody else try to help you and you don't believe them, you can easily check the rules yourself on the forums.

It is important to know the differences between rules and laws, as has been pointed out before me already. Rules are ooRP, laws are inRP, and can be found at different places of the forum.

4, If all the above is true, which it is, How can I be expected to follow rules that I dont know about, previously check rules that I dont know about, and adhere to rules that I dont know about...and even BREAK them, without even knowing about them?

Not knowing about is just a minor mistake, which you can easily fix, by looking for them. Not even looking for any rules is a way bigger mistake. Besides, everybody can say they didn't know about, so what? "I didn't know I shouldn't pass the red light, no matter two people died because of me, how can you hold me accountable for breaking regulations I did not know about?" Heh, nope, that's not how things work here, nor does in real life.

5, Therefore: by doing all that I did, I broke several rules... ...without prior knowledge of them.
Since you cannot actually BREAK a rule if you dont know that there is a rule. I, therefore, broke no rules.

Wrong logic. People has been affected by gravity for millenia before Newton pointing out that there is some weird magic binding us to Earth. Things having an effect/being applied on you does not correlate with your knowledge about them. Where do you live that you still believe in this way of thinking? Or rather, how old are you?

The correct thing to do at THAT point is:
1, Direct the player to go look at the rules, and tell them where to look.
2, Give said player the benefit of the doubt.
3, Make sure that, upon learning the rules, said player doesnt break them again.

1.) You have had that commodity in your cargo hold when you made your first ship on the server. Why didn't you read it?
2.) Benefit of the doubt are usually given to players who are more keen to accept and correct their mistakes, as would be expected from responsible people, than try to save their backsides with a wall of text of failed logic, like a child, even after being proven to be wrong. I think you would get that too, should you put more effort into, idunno, like reading the rules maybe?
3.) Go read the rules now. And don't ever break them again. Am I doing this right?

Removing all ways of continuing, AND initiating a 7 day ban, for a player who has no knowledge of any rules...
Now thats BAD. It will make the player not WANT to play, and certainly not WANT to follow any rules.
It may also cause several OTHER players to not want to play anymore, and could reduce the number of new players.

I'd assume that if somebody experiences the consequences, in this case the quite negative effects of not knowing the rules, the first thing they gonna do is to get to know the rules, so that they won't experience the same thing again. But maybe it is just me expecting too much from people.

You took the only weapons I had, and I hadnt got much money. So I couldnt do missions to earn cash, and I couldnt trade for the reasons of: not having any way to defend from attack while trading, and not having enough cash to purchase commodities.

Don't do missions, worst way of earning money. Mine Helium in Pennsy, main income for starters, grind with the starter freighter for a short while. Mining is the most profitable, though boring a bit for me. If for you too, trade, download FLStat, FLCompanion, plan your trade routes, grind for cash to buy bigger transports, Camara, Percheron, Serenity, Bison, by the time you get to the Mastodon, you'll earn $200,000s in minutes. And if the cash from a starting ship doesn't help you to get started, make connections. This is a multiplayer game after all...

Now, going by the fact that I didnt know the rules...I think THAT was enough of a punishment, dont you?
Even if I KNEW the rules...doing THAT would already screw me enough to say "hmm, might not break a rule again"

Well, wasn't this the point of the sanction? Make you not to break rules?

The 7 day ban was unnecessary, over the top, out of RP, and honestly very silly!
Also, taking the player from where he was, to a VERY hostile station, in the middle of a cargo run is ALSO very out of RP.

Yeah, the difference between rules and laws. Rules (and the sanctions for breaking them) are ooRP, laws are inRP. Afaik we discussed this already.

You cost me over $200,000 of trading profit...and I'm now stuck somewhere that I cant leave.

Make a starter ship, make connections, make money just how I described above. Poke me if you need help with FLStat and FLC and with trade routes in general, poke somebody else if you need help with mining, because I'm not a mining expert.

You cant expect others to follow RP rules if you are able to pluck ships at will and dump them somewhere.
If WE have to follow RP rules...so do you...admin or not!!!

Yeah, Server rules are ooRP. House and other faction laws are inRP. You know the drill...

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[Sath]

my god, that was huge.

[Diablo666Daemon666]

You mean...to RP within RP...?
I thought that sort of thing would be OoRP...?

I don't get what you mean with RP within RP, iRP your character has a video feed, just like the little window that appears showing an NPC if one talks to you. You can describe your character's actions by encasing it with *. For example " *She looks surprised* What do you mean with that?" In that case the part within the * symbols would be an action and the part outside would be what your character says.

Plus, it would be difficult to express it properly with the language filters.

You should not RP that, to be honest. Too close to the server rules. The drunk thing is fully alright and fun though.

No occifer, I am not under the alfluence of incohol.

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"He who controls the past commands the future, He who commands the future, conquers the past."
- Kane, Brotherhood Of NOD.

[Diablo666Daemon666]

If you are not allowed to have certain ships in certain places, then why still allow them to be freely purchased by anoyone and flown away?
If you want to enforce these rules...and laws...then you should set it so that only people with an Order ID can get Order ships...Navy ID for Navy ships...and so on.

It can be done, I've seen it on other servers.

Anyway, I've learnt my lesson. If you let me back onto the game, I will learn the server rules, and attempt to learn the "house" laws...and abide by them.

I even apologise for my threatening behaviour...no matter how angry you get, you shouldnt do that.
I understand now.

Oh...
And, going back to the faction. I suggested it to an admin of the OTHER RP server...
He seems to like it.

If I get it set up and sorted THERE, I can show you what I mean better on HERE...
I think...

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"He who controls the past commands the future, He who commands the future, conquers the past."
- Kane, Brotherhood Of NOD.

[Diablo666Daemon666]

By the way...who else voted on my poll? Lol.

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"He who controls the past commands the future, He who commands the future, conquers the past."
- Kane, Brotherhood Of NOD.

[Fluffyball]

If you are not allowed to have certain ships in certain places, then why still allow them to be freely purchased by anoyone and flown away?
If you want to enforce these rules...and laws...then you should set it so that only people with an Order ID can get Order ships...Navy ID for Navy ships...and so on.

It can be done, I've seen it on other servers.

Anyway, I've learnt my lesson. If you let me back onto the game, I will learn the server rules, and attempt to learn the "house" laws...and abide by them.

I even apologise for my threatening behaviour...no matter how angry you get, you shouldnt do that.
I understand now.

Oh...
And, going back to the faction. I suggested it to an admin of the OTHER RP server...
He seems to like it.

If I get it set up and sorted THERE, I can show you what I mean better on HERE...
I think...

You are free to buy any ship and outfit (this require good reputation however) you desire ooRP. If there was even a way, you could even buy Nomad ship (if there was a bribe).

But this is RP server. All ships are enable, because you can play as freelancer. But using these ships is restricted by certain houses, like, you can be in Liberty Gunboat with LPI, LSF or LN ID. But if you have Freelancer ID (putting aside a fact your ship is less efficient than LPI/LSF/LN ID-ed one), you will be fined, scolded upon or even shot in no time, because it was like you either bought that on black market, stole it, or worse.

Think of it like you... bought a gun in Europe. You can own it, keep it at home but if any Police sees that outside your home (or you use it in self-defence without being registered), you will end really bad...

Not to mention efficience, because each vessel is nerfed from 90% (applies to house transports) to even 10% (some radical cases, but it is usualy 90-75%)

This is why there are always at least 3 to 4 independant versions of the ships that can match the house ones (there are 3 gunboats, several fighters and bombers - including Border-Worlds line, Renzu line, Sun- line, and so on). This however does not apply to transports (up to 3600 cargo, with Freelancer ID).

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User was banned for: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=138636
Time left: (Permanent)

[Diablo666Daemon666]

But if you have Freelancer ID (putting aside a fact your ship is less efficient than LPI/LSF/LN ID-ed one), you will be fined, scolded upon or even shot in no time, because it was like you either bought that on black market, stole it, or worse.

*cough* ...or bought if from one of the numerous LPI/LSF/Navy bases...?
In the RP setting, any of the NPC's could theoretically buy any ship they wanted, so along the same lines, so should any player.
We are pretending to be just the same as them...so...

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"He who controls the past commands the future, He who commands the future, conquers the past."
- Kane, Brotherhood Of NOD.

[Diablo666Daemon666]

How DO you get to buy a NOMAD ship...?
There's no way to...impress them.

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"He who controls the past commands the future, He who commands the future, conquers the past."
- Kane, Brotherhood Of NOD.

[Fluffyball]

How DO you get to buy a NOMAD ship...?
There's no way to...impress them.

It was the thing I wanted to point out. You can only obtain such by restarts.

But if you have Freelancer ID (putting aside a fact your ship is less efficient than LPI/LSF/LN ID-ed one), you will be fined, scolded upon or even shot in no time, because it was like you either bought that on black market, stole it, or worse.

*cough* ...or bought if from one of the numerous LPI/LSF/Navy bases...?
In the RP setting, any of the NPC's could theoretically buy any ship they wanted, so along the same lines, so should any player.
We are pretending to be just the same as them...so...

You STILL miss something out that everyone from the very beginning, including myself, try to point out to you. There's something like ooRP and inRP after all.

a) The fact you can buy every ship is ooRP. Also, I believe it is unability to do serious changes into game code (like you choose capital ships and it still shows freighter class).

b) The matter of using it with Freelancer ID is inRP here, because you WILL be scolded by Military or Police for possession of the illegal or restricted ship (as written in the House law codes).

c) You will also get scolded if you are using ship, as a freelancer with such ID, restricted to both player and npc faction (like The Order).

In simpler words: being able to buy the ship ooRP is not excuse for possessing it inRP - still talking about ship with Freelancer ID, mind you. If you wear good ID (LN ID on LN ship), following AT LEAST rules in ID, you will be safe. But if you want to RP as law enforcer, you still kinda need to know house law from forums.

ID does not forbid or limit buying ships after all that (except for nerfing power output), but keep in mind that this is RP server and Liberty, Kusari, etc. Laws are written - and they are the major documents in RP that is taking place 24/7. And you, as you are roleplaying citizen or foreigner, MUST abide the law - or leave the space.

You can always ignore law, but you'll do it inRP as well, and face the consequences. Not knowing about the law is not an excuse.

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User was banned for: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=138636
Time left: (Permanent)

[t0l]

If you want a nomad ship, do a restart nomad.

Type /showrestart to find it, I can't remember off the top of my head.

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