Boosting Away From A Fight

[timmychen]

When in a fight, and you decide to start to boost away.. how far away is considered a retreat?

Example: This happened to me a couple days ago, but I forgot to ask until now.

So a Outcast Destroyer appears outside Manhattan. Me, two other lawfuls, and two other varying pilots appear start to attack him. He proceeds to boost to about 10k away from Manhattan, with us attacking him (and him attacking back) all the way. By the time he's 10k away from Manhattan, two of us have died, and two have retreated. So since I'm the only one left, and I'm in a VHF, I decide to boost my way back towards to Manhattan in order to possibly bring more people into the fight. Of course, he follows me, shooting all the way.. but.. since I boost faster (at 60 m/s faster), I start to get ahead - eventually getting to about 3k away from him.

He then enters cruise to catch up, and continues shooting at me.

Did he have to leave the system for cruising? Or did I have to leave the system because I "retreated"? Who is in the wrong here?

Generally, I think 8k or more away is considered a retreat, but that's just me.

[Spear]

When in a fight, and you decide to start to boost away.. how far away is considered a retreat?

Example: This happened to me a couple days ago, but I forgot to ask until now.

So a Outcast Destroyer appears outside Manhattan. Me, two other lawfuls, and two other varying pilots appear start to attack him. He proceeds to boost to about 10k away from Manhattan, with us attacking him (and him attacking back) all the way. By the time he's 10k away from Manhattan, two of us have died, and two have retreated. So since I'm the only one left, and I'm in a VHF, I decide to boost my way back towards to Manhattan in order to possibly bring more people into the fight. Of course, he follows me, shooting all the way.. but.. since I boost faster (at 60 m/s faster), I start to get ahead - eventually getting to about 3k away from him.

He then enters cruise to catch up, and continues shooting at me.

Did he have to leave the system for cruising? Or did I have to leave the system because I "retreated"? Who is in the wrong here?

Generally, I think 8k or more away is considered a retreat, but that's just me.

Tricky, to be honest if you are afterburning away and the enemy cruises to catch you up then I dont really have a problem with that, however cruising in combat IS against the rules. However I would not rule lawyer somone out the fight for this.

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=LSF=

[Xoria]

According to the rules as currently written, as I understand them, he technically retreated the moment he went to cruise speed, and its a re-engagement if he attacks again. Intent is irrelevant.

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[Zapp]

Well yes, Xoria, that's what the rules say. If that's what happened on the server, an entire Liberty capital group that I fought with my HF would have been sanctioned. However, that's not how it works server-side, whatever we may like to think. It's really not worth it... I make no mention of it, I hate rule-lawyering during a fight.

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[Dieter Schprokets]

According to the rules as currently written, as I understand them, he technically retreated the moment he went to cruise speed, and its a re-engagement if he attacks again. Intent is irrelevant.

I have asked about precisely this situation, and was told the following.

When a GB is trying to pursue a fighter or bomber who is afterburning away, the GB may use cruise to catch it. Otherwise, how can a GB ever catch one?

In a sense, the fighter is shieldrunning, since the GB can never hope to catch the fighter which is afterburning at 200.

IMHO this is the only occasion where cruise in a fight is permissible; to catch someone who afterburns faster than you.

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[Spear]

Well yes, Xoria, that's what the rules say. If that's what happened on the server, an entire Liberty capital group that I fought with my HF would have been sanctioned. However, that's not how it works server-side, whatever we may like to think. It's really not worth it... I make no mention of it, I hate rule-lawyering during a fight.

:)If you are refering to the battle today mate then I would point out cruising after someone who cruises away is allowed. But you are right, this rule is so wildy flaunted by Gunboats and larger as to be irrelevant and hard to screen and prove since the victim of this behaviour is retreating.

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=LSF=

[Why?]

If a person retreats, yet the attackers follow him, the rules state he may re-engage.


5.6 If a player engages cruise engine or docks during a PvP fight, this player is considered fleeing. The fleeing player must not enter the system where the fight took place with any of the characters on his/her account(s) while the enemy (player or players involved in the fight) remains in the system, but no more than 4 hours.

However, the fleeing player can re-engage at will if chased.


There we go, I don't think I could've highlighted it any more.

What we need on the server is more common sense, and less sticking to the rules exactly as they are written. About the only pvp rule that should be applied 100% of the time is the no re-engagement rule. And only when it is a real pvp fight, not a duel.

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Hmm, where have I come? Why does it seem so familiar to this one?

[Horon]

It's like Earthworm Jim used to say,

We aren't retreating, We're advancing in reverse!

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While being quite funny, your sig was the biggest one i've ever seen so far. No more than 700x250 please. ~utrack
http://pastebin.com/SYQXBufs

[Robert.Fitzgerald]

The thing is, the cruise rule exists to prevent shield running and help prevent capitals from... E-killing I think.

A fighter SHOULD be able to escape a capital by thrustering away. Sure, it counts as a retreat, but they still have their ship. A capital SHOULD NOT be allowed to cruise to catch upto him, as that would break the rules.

That's how I interpret it. If a capital really wants a kill, they better kill the fighter before he starts to flee...

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[Jinx]

i think it was cleared up - very clear.

whatever you do in a fight, - you must NOT cruise, no matter what. the second you cruise you are retreating. - one single shot on the other person is to be considered re-engagement. when you cruise, you cruise OUT OF the system.

we had the situation with fighters against slower ships - and the general answer was "tough luck". a gunboat cannot thrust as fast as a fighter. and a fighter can fly more than twice as fast as a battleship. a fighter is considered retreated when he left the sensor range, in terms of thrusted away.

shield running happens in various situations and is widely accepted. whenever two ships attack one, you can be sure that the two ships will take turns in shield running. and thats accepted - when a ships shields is low, it usually falls back to regenerate while the other one leads the attack. - so shield running is accepted and allowed in the circumstances ( and the general answer from the community is : "dont fly alone" )

so when a single gunboat is attacked by a fighter - it brings enough firepower and protection to deal with the fighter - but it won t bring enough flexibility to finish the fighter off unless he breaks the rules.

whoever cruises first looses the fight <--- thats the easy rule, and there is absolutely no discussion about how much this is logical or not. if someone feels nasty that day - the one that cruises to catch up and resume firing on the target can be reported.

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