(01-13-2015, 06:56 PM)Zed26 Wrote: This doesn't reveal cloakers, it just alerts you to their presence. Targets have no idea which way to run. 8km is a huge range where the cloaked ship can still select a target to track them and see which way they're running. It adds to the atmosphere and makes things more intense. Worried they'll engage a tradelane? Develop a plan and circle around to get between it and them before they reach 8k, then watch them madly make a beeline for it once they hear the ping, only to get intercepted by you.
On the defensive, once you've successfully cloaked, you can't be disrupted and they have no idea which direction you're going. Take the less obvious path or one with obstacles to throw off attackers. There are lots of strategies to develop that keep things going.
Just knowing you're being watched can be pretty frightening. Probably the biggest things it will stop people from doing are illegal docking or stopping a local conversation because of eavesdroppers.
If anything, some people might end up harassing others in transports or nomad ships by pinging them nonstop with no way to be seen.
I disagree. 8k is more than enough to veer towards a base, and that's why this feature is being put in. Alerting someone to the presence of a cloaked ship is revealing them. In total, this, and the upcoming changes are killing cloaks to turn them into nothing but RP ornaments. They want to make it harder to ambush someone, and harder to escape someone, with a cloak. Defeats the purpose to me. The parameters of the cloak I started out with are what drew me to it. Now that it will be a different case altogether, and it seems ridiculous to continue to base my RP around this ability. I guess I should have seen the future and not even bothered?
Infinite cloaks...I could see it, since they are, infinite and all. Regular cloaks are already on the clock, and have hard enough charge times as it is, let alone them getting harder, and making noise to give away their presence. A cloak is for stealth. If it just fails due to proximity like this, it will be more than enough to prevent espionage with cloaks, and sneak attacks. Again, if it was part of a special scanner, expensive, so one person in a group might 'specialize' in cloaking CM, at least there's an inrp reason for that.
Wanting that advantage, to ambush, escape or 'eavesdrop' is part of the allure of cloaks. Not just the flashy effects or the ability to show it off when you get scanned by your friends. I use my cloak, every day. I can provide countless videos where my attacks would have failed due to this. Following and stalking an enemy, and ambushing them when they're far from a base, or in a sweet spot far from jumpholes/bases, is the best purpose in using a cloak for offensive measures. Each step makes using cloaks practically, harder and harder. Why not just make it against the rules to attack or escape with a cloak, and I can save some whining and just leave.
Is this for newbs or something? Sure, have all the newbs you want, who can't RP yet and silently trade and have never been pirated by a player. Hardcores like me will fade out and be replaced by people that can't even handle getting pirated by a pelican. If you like being scared, I can follow you cloaked until you're 30k from a base or jumphole, and drop in on you with a demand if you like. Well, not anymore I guess...since to follow you i'll have to remain 9k behind you, and never be able to catch up. So you can just turn around and dock, well before I could do anything, if i did try to stay close. See how this works now? Now I can just wait by a jumpgate and pirate people coming in, no point in cloaking anymore. Any other circumstance will be negated by this 'sound'. No one's going to stray from a base and take a trade lane while hearing that sound.
(01-13-2015, 02:02 PM)Alley Wrote: 8k and 5 seconds is the default value the development team provided. Further fine-tuning is left to the administration team.
This is an important line that's being overlooked. Before we get carried away, why don't we actually try it out for a while and see if RP really is harmed, then provide proof of why it should be changed to the admins? I build and use cloaks myself, so I'm willing to compare results.
(01-13-2015, 07:55 PM)baivan Wrote: maybe remove the sound-effect for the small ships?
Not a bad idea, just have pinging for large cloaks?
I have a legit question that concerns the admins:
So I've heard that RP done whilst cloaked doesn't count (to prevent all sorts of cheap spying etc.) There isn't a written rule about this so I may be wrong.
Therefore, because now cloaked ships can be somewhat detected, does that mean RP done whilst cloaked is valid?
(01-13-2015, 08:05 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: No one's going to stray from a base and take a trade lane while hearing that sound.
That is a very good point!
Indeed.
I deployed a new version that doesn't play the sound to the cloaked player and halved the range to 4K until the admin team apply their own value. 8K was quite large as default value.
Unrelated, but as a concession for people who genuinely use cloaks for RP (such as TheUnforgiven's Argo, which I've had fun experiences with), why not add the Spec Ops ID as one of the "fuel" types for cloaks, which is how nomad cloaks work (hence unlimited fuel), at least until an update. Because SRP equipment and performance is closely monitored, there's more accountability and (hopefully) responsibility, but the SRP player has fewer factors to worry about.
(01-13-2015, 08:34 PM)Zed26 Wrote: Unrelated, but as a concession for people who genuinely use cloaks for RP (such as TheUnforgiven's Argo, which I've had fun experiences with), why not add the Spec Ops ID as one of the "fuel" types for cloaks, which is how nomad cloaks work (hence unlimited fuel), at least until an update. Because SRP equipment and performance is closely monitored, there's more accountability and (hopefully) responsibility, but the SRP player has fewer factors to worry about.
the admins can do that themselves, it's just adding one value in the cloak.ini file (and they know how to edit it, don't worry about that). Devs aren't needed for that.
Someone mentioned that this will make cloaks even more useless than they actually are. Only thing cloaks really suffers is the known cloak vs CD bug, which allows player to intentionally spam missiles on previously targeted ship and locate it. It doesn't make sense inRP because since sensors can see the ship, missiles shouldn't be able to track something invisible. But the sound emmiting idea is RP reasonable as some kind of "anti-cloak scan". Good idea, Alley.
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(01-13-2015, 08:34 PM)Zed26 Wrote: Unrelated, but as a concession for people who genuinely use cloaks for RP (such as TheUnforgiven's Argo, which I've had fun experiences with), why not add the Spec Ops ID as one of the "fuel" types for cloaks, which is how nomad cloaks work (hence unlimited fuel), at least until an update. Because SRP equipment and performance is closely monitored, there's more accountability and (hopefully) responsibility, but the SRP player has fewer factors to worry about.
the admins can do that themselves, it's just adding one value in the cloak.ini file (and they know how to edit it, don't worry about that). Devs aren't needed for that.
As much as I'd love an infinite cloak, and I appreciate the suggestion, there's just no inrp reason for having that on my pelican. If I was told I could come up with RP around it...maybe, but would probably be a stretch. But my Spec Ops ID doesn't even save me from the BS scanner nerf, so for all of those under the impression my ID saves me of that, it doesn't. I didn't ask for it, because again, no inrp reason I'd get no power drain from having a BS scanner on a Pelican just because of my ID. I accepted that, and was mainly after the rules of the ID for its freedom. I'm not asking for special treatment, only for things to remain as they have been thus far.
People already have their own ways of figuring out who's cloaking and who isn't. Inrp sometimes all you can do is have your suspicions while looking at the chat list, and watching inrp for suspicious 'transmissions', like a local chat from a ship that doesn't exist on scanner. Even last week I was by the Shikoku gate in Kepler, saw a ship in Shikoku, and waited. Finally I noticed on the chatlist he was in Kepler, yet I saw no ship. I was impressed actually, as this guy already found a good way to deal with the likes of me, or other cloakers, being...another cloak.
And I'm not sure whoever said RP while cloaked doesn't count, I missed that, for the last year and half...It became particularly useful when I was trying to recruit pirates to work with me. That's harder than it seems, recruiting pirates is like taming Lions. If they don't know me, they usually try to attack first. Most times I'd find them cloaked and talk to them first about business, convince them not to attack me, then reveal myself.
Again I hate being a negative Nancy on cloak changes but I still feel people playing the last few years have well adapted to the system we've had and have been making it work. Yes it has its pitfalls, and fruits. When it comes to this though I think changing how they operate just opens new problems in place of the old ones. Why not deal with the devil you know?
Sound for traditional cloaks...bad
Sound for Nomad/Wilde cloaks...not so bad, but could still use a specialized scanner to make it really make sense. And I'd only support that if most nomad/wilde players agreed. If not, I'd totally understand that pain!
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