You were the one who brought up their being a part of the Armed Forces to begin with, I was merely clarifying. Yes the LPI is a part of the "Liberty Forces", that is not the same as them being a branch of the Armed Forces Of The Republic.
(LPI is not a part of the military, they're a private corporation focused on civilian law enforcement...how is this even something to argue about? It's a fact, albeit one that has nothing to do with what I originally came here to talk about.)
Again let me point out, I have absolutely no issue with the LPI taking notice of what Rachel said inRP, and I have absolutely no issue if you want to direct an inRP communique at her in response to her comments, what I do have an issue with is what's going on right here, right now, because of an apparent lack of ability to differentiate between faction diplomatic standing, and the opinions of individual characters, and the lack of desire to step back and see this for what it was -- some roleplaying that has absolutely no bearing on factional diplomacy, or how we should act toward one another in game or out of game, in character or out of character.
The only reason I posted here is because the only information I had, besides the brief message you sent me privately, was people saying that the libgov chat was going "crazy" because of what I said, so I posted here seeking clarification, and seeking to clarify my own end, not to argue.
Believe it or not, I don't like being at the center of OOC animosity between groups of players, and I don't like when inRP things get taken out of context, neither do I like people thinking that something I do inRP means that I have some kind of OOC ulterior motive, so since I thought that's what might be happening, I sought to post here and clarify things.
I don't really see a problem here personally. Well actually in-RP theres a big problem, always has been, thats part of the RP. I've been watching the topic in question and to be honest its some of the milder criticism I and the LPI have received of late.
In-rp, JD Masket is ticked off because the navy doesn't take notice or appreciate ongoing efforts to root out corruption in the LPI, but he also realizes that responding in kind, in front of terrorists no less would be counter productive and best just to let the comment slide.
[LN] and LPI have had in-rp tension for a long time and I see it as part of the lore. I don't have a problem with that. I've made it my goal as chief to improve LPI's image as a law enforcement entity and to shed the air of "incompetence" that is often associated with it. The image I hope that LPI can gain is one of an effective and trustworthy law enforcement agency, though perhaps with its failing being excessive force or brutality towards criminals. Crime is high in liberty, desperate times call for desperate measures.
Perhaps, going down this road will lead to a change in the attitudes in-rp between LPI and LN. I hope it will, but if not thats fine. Unfortunately IN-RP feelings tend to bleed through into OORP feelings... at times this adds to the experience though.
Anways oorp I don't have a problem with the comment made, and I also don't intend to post on that topic as yet, even if I do i won't be addressing the comment against LPI.
And I agree, there's always been inRP tension between the LN and LPI, even back when I was a Deputy Chief. I can still remember the days of competing with the [LN] to enforce the Rheinland embargo! Good times.
And hey, Rachel even DOES respect most LPI Officers who she meets, and she respects what they do, it's just as a person she tends to be wary of corporations in general having too much power in Liberty's government. (Being a pretty left-leaning individual herself, privately.) The LPI just happened to be the example she went with, because it was a pretty direct retort to what the Legion's guy had said, it's not that she sees them as the biggest problem or something.
I'm far more interested in how the Navy handles this. Impending court martial?
Imagine general Petreus writing Bin Laden letters - as a private person no less - venting his frustration regarding CIA or some other branch of state enforcement.
Would there really be a job for him when he shows up at work the next day? Would he not spend the rest of his life in some dark prison cell after such an act of high treason?
I mean a disillusioned grunt, sure thing. The Navy is large and you cannot expect total discipline or patriotism - but an admiral??? Furthermore an admiral that distinguishes between the private person and the person in service - seems pretty unrealistic that anyone would ever make it that far up the hierarchy with such a 'civilian' distinction.
(07-22-2015, 11:41 AM)Mímir Wrote: I'm far more interested in how the Navy handles this. Impending court martial?
The LN has never been held accountable for any of its actions, even when going against the will of the entire Liberty Government, I don't think that is going to start now
(07-22-2015, 03:58 AM)Sarawr!? Wrote: Believe it or not, I don't like being at the center of OOC animosity between groups of players, and I don't like when inRP things get taken out of context, neither do I like people thinking that something I do inRP means that I have some kind of OOC ulterior motive, so since I thought that's what might be happening, I sought to post here and clarify things.
You say you don't like it when people think that something you do inRP has a kind of OOC motive. I understand that what you mean is that you don't want people to think you think the LPI sucks just because your character thinks so.
But to me its the actual real OOC and InRP motives behind your messages to the Hellfire Legion that are unclear. I suspect that the libgov chat (or what ever its called) may have "gone crazy" because its not clear to them either. Your motives may not have been to disrespect the LPI players, I believe you when you say that, but... what ARE your OOC and inRP motives? Everything you make your character say must have SOME sort of OOC motivation (for example to drive a certain storyline as OOC motivation, and your character will have some other IRP motivation).
So... what IS your OOC motivation? I have to agree with Mimir about your post, especially the parts where Rachel says she would love to disband the LPI and evict junkers out of liberty, and already the mere fact that she is talking to a terrorist leader "as a civilian" although she is a navy admiral, obviously trying to gain his sympathy or something. When I first read your IRP posts yesterday my immediate thought was: "Wow. That admiral is gonna get SO fired for saying that publicly". Is that your OOC motivation for those posts? To get your admiral fired?
Second, what is your Admiral's (and the other guy's ex-admiral) motivation for publicly talking to a terrorist, and saying these things about LPI and junkers? That's also totally unclear to me. They cant be so naïve to think that the hellfire legion is going to give a damn about what they think?
So when one reads that thread, one sees a jab at LPI, a jab at junkers, a jab at the concept of "nation" of the hellfire legion, and two LN admirals telling everyone publicly what good, compassionate, humble, and pacifistic people they think they are. Without any discernible goal or reason for why they would do those things, one is left with the unsatisfying impression that you're just saying these things to make yourself look a certain way, and to make the 3 other groups look another certain way.
Why those posts? What ARE the IRP and OORP motivations behind them? That's what I, and possibly those who "went crazy" don't get. Do you want to get your admiral sacked by the liberty government? Because that's the only logical IRP response that could come from it.
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Quote:Why those posts? What ARE the IRP and OORP motivations behind them? That's what I, and possibly those who "went crazy" don't get. Do you want to get your admiral sacked by the liberty government? Because that's the only logical IRP response that could come from it.
Character development.
It's a fiction. Baker is a long-running character, dating back to 2008, one of the most rewarded pilot (and Leader!) of the Navy of a 2003 space shooter, and her player enjoys playing moral dilemnas with her. People just have their fun. She didn't even say anything bad about the LPI, she didn't even question their work ethics, she simply mentioned that for the sake of Democratic accountability that they should be a nationalized force rather than a private police.
That's all there is to this. Really. Nothing more, nothing less. Just, character development and a fun little interaction that's not meant to be anything. If this would've been in the Story section, no one would've bothered. Really, it's that simple.
(07-22-2015, 05:59 PM)Pinko Wrote: Character development.
It's a fiction. Baker is a long-running character, dating back to 2008, one of the most rewarded pilot (and Leader!) of the Navy of a 2003 space shooter, and her player enjoys playing moral dilemnas with her. People just have their fun. She didn't even say anything bad about the LPI, she didn't even question their work ethics, she simply mentioned that for the sake of Democratic accountability that they should be a nationalized force rather than a private police.
That's all there is to this. Really. Nothing more, nothing less. Just, character development and a fun little interaction that's not meant to be anything. If this would've been in the Story section, no one would've bothered. Really, it's that simple.
That was clear. What was unclear was if she would like to develop her character away from the Liberty Navy in future or not. If not, I think people would be right to suggest a little more consideration of RP logic and RP quality in future. If other people are expected to suffer RP consequences for their actions, shouldn't that also be the case for a "primary fleet" character?
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