(08-01-2015, 01:04 PM)Rodent Wrote: I find the apparent necessity to have everything defined by exact numbers and to make perfect sense tiresome these days.
Isn't it just?
People who want to turn this into some kind of simulator bore the crap out of me. This is fiction... Relax about it. Gallia is "big", has a "large number of warships" and a "huge population".
That's all the definition you need. No need for numbers, just let the reader/player's imagination take hold from there. Job done. Writers and roleplayers don't need to be meticulous in that way...
(08-01-2015, 01:04 PM)Rodent Wrote: It's a storytelling exercise. JRR Tolkien did not bother explaining where Sauron got his hordes from beyond the basics. The evildoers in Wheel of Time have apparent access to countless armies. The White Walkers in ASOIAF have undefined strength but are definitely an existential threat. I could go on.
+1, otherwise the whole server would have to be hard core mode and not respawn ships.
I'm sorry if I clogged someone's throat with numbers, but what I tried to do here was to prove that Gallia is not as powerful as many people think, and when I am using arguments, I prefer them to be precise and correct.
Gallia is smaller than Liberty by population, and probably by economy as well, having emerged from isolation only recently and apparently still unready, having a totalitarian regime, a revolution going on, little remaining resources and a huge fleet to maintain. It is certainly inferior to Liberty and Bretonia together, being almost twice smaller by the number of its citizens.
Gallia can win the war if it blitzkriegs, but if the war drags on, the stronger economy is going to prevail. It has been raging for 4 years already, and I wonder if Liberty and Bretonia have already built an allied armada to rival that of the Gauls, or to surpass it.
@Thunderer
Why do you think that Gallia have lack of resources after all? They controling some Taus full of it, they have a puppet regime in Kusari. I believe it is more than enough to covering the fleet maintenance. As well as I do not believe that BAF in good condition and position for the offensive kind of war. Bretonian economy must be as good as BAF for now. Liberty at the same time /still/ have a Rheinland as the threat at the backyard so I don't think that Liberty will go too far.
If we talking about the population, it is a 'transatlantic' kind of war for the Liberty so libertorians will not go for full mobilization like Bretonia or Gallia for example.
Actually, whenever you look, Liberty and Bretonia are kinda alone in that fight. Kusari-Rheinland are the economical backbone for the Gallia right now.
As for the numbers, someone stated in the lore that Bretonia has 30 battleships (in comparison, KNF has 10 of them + 2 from Kusari Exile forces), while Liberty has around 100 battleships. Numbers of 500 battleships is perhaps a bit too bug, but I'd stand around 200-300 battleships of Gallic origin, because Gallia technically speaking is twice-size of any given house (they have around 10 shipyards, if I'm not mistaken - Liberty has only 5, Rheinland 4, Kusari 3+1 and Bretonia has only 2 shipyards).
We also should take into consideration that 800 years in isolation, aside of two civil wars, gave Gallia an upper hand, because unlike Sirius there were no territorial disputes and no major fleet loss - while all houses more or less had been impacted by Nomad War only. However, its nowhere close to Rheinland losing entire fleet during 80 Years War - Kusari lost 99% combat capability during Siege of Honshu in said Nomad War.
Kusari again lost their combat capability (again) because majority of Kusari fleet was in Taus and only two battleships managed to survive - yet they pledged allegiance to the original ruler. I think Liberty knows that Kusari is a Gallic puppet, but it's the GMG that fuels Liberty.
While the Libertonian-Rheinland peace might be advantage for the Allied Forces, it also might mean their huge flaw, since Rheinland and Kusari possess quite strong industry and can casually fund Gallia without being interrupted much - this is one of the reasons why Kusari Civil War is needed for the Liberty and Bretonia, no matter who would spark it first - also being a risk for Liberty-GMG supply line from the "north", unless Ellesmere-Sigma 59 route would be used as silent agreement between both.
That has sense, FLuffyball. I've seen there were some preparations for the civil war. Please don't tell me when or if it will erupt, I like surprises in updates.
(08-01-2015, 05:00 PM)Thunderer Wrote: I'm sorry if I clogged someone's throat with numbers, but what I tried to do here was to prove that Gallia is not as powerful as many people think, and when I am using arguments, I prefer them to be precise and correct.
Gallia is smaller than Liberty by population, and probably by economy as well, having emerged from isolation only recently and apparently still unready, having a totalitarian regime, a revolution going on, little remaining resources and a huge fleet to maintain. It is certainly inferior to Liberty and Bretonia together, being almost twice smaller by the number of its citizens.
Gallia can win the war if it blitzkriegs, but if the war drags on, the stronger economy is going to prevail. It has been raging for 4 years already, and I wonder if Liberty and Bretonia have already built an allied armada to rival that of the Gauls, or to surpass it.
I'd say you missed my point, but it's not that. The Bretonian agenda at work again, I see...fishing for self-justifications to continue moping around dejectedly claiming that what's happening to the House is 'illogical', eh? Some things never change.
Selective choosing of data to support your viewpoint will not get you anywhere. There's a million arguments to be made against it, Liberty unwilling to commit -that much- into saving a broken down, decrepit neighbor... it's own weakening trade relations with Kusari and a lack thereof with Rheinland as both houses align with Gallia, Liberty's own poverty in terms of resources (it relies on trade, this much is common fact). Growing war weariness at home in Bretonia as they continue fighting a war with no end in sight and no victory to be gained. War weariness in Liberty as the war with Rheinland dragged on for no apparent reason. Democracies tend to tire of war quicker as well, I'll remind you. The Powell administration could be voted out in favor of an anti-war government, who may very well negotiate out of the war with Gallia.
It's easy to dive into overcomplicated explanations to support one or the other agenda. I do not have time to waste on justifying Gallia, because I've always understood it's role as an antagonist. None of us are actual economists, tacticians, war leaders or politicians. Let's not pretend that we can equal them by creating a fictional narrative that'll match what the real world offers in terms of it's complexity.
Or you could continue with your agenda. Good luck to you.
(08-01-2015, 05:00 PM)Thunderer Wrote: I'm sorry if I clogged someone's throat with numbers, but what I tried to do here was to prove that Gallia is not as powerful as many people think, and when I am using arguments, I prefer them to be precise and correct.
Gallia is smaller than Liberty by population, and probably by economy as well, having emerged from isolation only recently and apparently still unready, having a totalitarian regime, a revolution going on, little remaining resources and a huge fleet to maintain. It is certainly inferior to Liberty and Bretonia together, being almost twice smaller by the number of its citizens.
Gallia can win the war if it blitzkriegs, but if the war drags on, the stronger economy is going to prevail. It has been raging for 4 years already, and I wonder if Liberty and Bretonia have already built an allied armada to rival that of the Gauls, or to surpass it.
I'd say you missed my point, but it's not that. The Bretonian agenda at work again, I see...fishing for self-justifications to continue moping around dejectedly claiming that what's happening to the House is 'illogical', eh? Some things never change.
Selective choosing of data to support your viewpoint will not get you anywhere. There's a million arguments to be made against it, Liberty unwilling to commit -that much- into saving a broken down, decrepit neighbor... it's own weakening trade relations with Kusari and a lack thereof with Rheinland as both houses align with Gallia, Liberty's own poverty in terms of resources (it relies on trade, this much is common fact). Growing war weariness at home in Bretonia as they continue fighting a war with no end in sight and no victory to be gained. War weariness in Liberty as the war with Rheinland dragged on for no apparent reason. Democracies tend to tire of war quicker as well, I'll remind you. The Powell administration could be voted out in favor of an anti-war government, who may very well negotiate out of the war with Gallia.
It's easy to dive into overcomplicated explanations to support one or the other agenda. I do not have time to waste on justifying Gallia, because I've always understood it's role as an antagonist. None of us are actual economists, tacticians, war leaders or politicians. Let's not pretend that we can equal them by creating a fictional narrative that'll match what the real world offers in terms of it's complexity.
Or you could continue with your agenda. Good luck to you.
^Not only does Gallia obliterate Bretonia in the game and in lore, but it appears that its supporters are taking this tradition to the forums as well.
Gallia shall win over Bretonia, and its glory will shine with the power of a thousands suns. And you know why? Because...
Deus Vult!
I said nothing offensive to you. Please tell me if something I said was offensive, and I will apologize and correct what can be corrected. We are supposed to play together, not war among ourselves.
I tried to be as objective as I could, but I can't help if people see things that aren't really there. I pretty much expected that because there are all kinds of different people with different views on different things. I just mind when they start thinking they are in some kind of a personal war with me, because I don't want to be at war with anyone. I like peace, cooperation and prosperity better.
So as I said, if I did you something wrong to make you speak like that, please tell me, because I don't know and I don't want to.
I think I must agree with @Rodent , while I mean no offense by this, this thread could be taken as another attempt by BAF/Bretonian players to try change public image of Bretonia getting destroyed by the Gallics.
Sadly, this wouldn't be the first attempt in my experience, but again, if it's not, please don't take my comment as anything offensive - that's just my personal experience with such threads and Bretonian players' attitude.
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