How about just having the mechanism take off the name from scanners but to aim at them you'd need to manually select them by clicking on their ship.
If they get too close and you see them then boom, done!
If they use it and are able to not be seen by you then they are safe.
(12-16-2015, 04:25 PM)sindroms Wrote: Using cloaks to collect RP data is a bad move and should not be done in general.
Not even by intelligence factions.
(12-16-2015, 04:49 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Being invisible and avoiding interaction in a game that heavily depends on interaction.
Find the mistake.
Furthermore +1 to what Spazzy wrote: cloaked spying is a big nono, furthermore it is dirt cheap and fool-proof. So where is the fun?
Cloaks should never have been introduced.
They are harmful to gameplay.
Therefore a proliferation of them is not a good idea in my opinion.
Don't let them fool you. It is ok to spy cloaked. Not ok to use cloaked intel for sanctioning. The point of cloaks is to give options within tactis, spying is one. With scanner range reductions, most ships will now know when they are being scanned while cloaked, and with the all knowing chat list giving away people's general positions, Its now as fair game as it ever was to sneak up on someone cloaked. This 'activity killer' attitude is one of those who fear having the rug pulled out from beneath them. With all due respect gentlemen, what's that npc always say? don't lose your attention, even for a second, that's all it takes? If you want to sit by your base and RP and tell people on the forum not to spy cloaked, that's just sad. Work to keep your secrets, that's why we play. Others work to get them, and now that we have cloaks, we have to deal with what every sci-fi futuristic action adventure space shooter ever had to deal with....cloaking devices. Especially with the new cloak disruptors?? When do you think you'll ever need one? You people should be welcoming any chance to catch a cloaking spy right in your midst. Spying is just as much interaction as anything else. If official factions want to set protocols for their members to follow when it comes to this, then by all means that is their right.
So sorry but my 1000+ hours on Argo (not to mention my other ships) seems to suggest it didn't harm my gameplay, in fact it highly stimulated it. No one's ever come at me claiming it shortened their time here. Telling people how to play just to give yourself an edge is what's actually harmful to gameplay guys. Let people enjoy the game. You guys by now I'm sure can take care of yourselves out there, cloaks or not. Interaction is not always guranteed to be 2 way, there's nothing saying that anywhere. You can log and always wind up by yourself, interaction of any kind is not guaranteed. So, I see you! if you can't see me, your problem not mine. Don't wanna be seen? Get a cloak. Don't want cloakers skulking? Buy some cloak CD's and find some dependable pilots. Its still interaction, and lots of cause for more! And it doesn't even cause you blues, just being seen. Espionage is every cloaker's right. Its one of the only highly plausible uses for a cloak, since most don't allow escapes from battles, right?
As to the OP, as long as there are no parameters of the cloak that give any edge over the normal ones (like something in between the Mk1 and Mk2), and you guys are having trouble finding/meeting people to build or sell them to you, maybe adding an NPC sell point would be ok. Some people complain they are too plenty now, too easy to obtain. I don't feel that way. Others might see low population and think, maybe its about time we just made some available through npc bases so people will still want to come and try the game out period. New players are so far from getting cloaks, us old ones fail to see the difficulty sometimes that we overcame years ago.
(12-16-2015, 04:55 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: What about device that "muffles" the visibility on radar range, with people using such a device being visible only within 5K range?
+1 to this idea, a better alternative to cloaks in my opinion.
(12-16-2015, 06:33 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Don't let them fool you. It is ok to spy cloaked. Not ok to use cloaked intel for sanctioning.
Whose your dealer? I want in bro
You might be right, I am crazy, depending on the infraction, you probably can used screens taken cloaked to file a sanction. Otherwise, i see it no where in the rules you can't spy cloaked. Again, to log and expect others to 'interact' with you like they're obligated to be seen by you, is an old way of thinking. Its not guaranteed, like nothing in life is. I mean come on, you hide behind the argument its for 'interaction' sakes, but really, you want a spy to be visible to you, to give you the chance to kill them, and their RP. Who doesn't like spies that are easily caught? Well if you don't have any cloak disruptors on your payroll and really worry about losing interaction, you now have the trump card you always dreamed of!
"Don't spy on us while cloaked, its bad form...for us!"
Right...
(12-16-2015, 07:26 PM)Hidamari Wrote:
(12-16-2015, 04:49 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Being invisible and avoiding interaction in a game that heavily depends on interaction.
Find the mistake.
Furthermore +1 to what Spazzy wrote: cloaked spying is a big nono, furthermore it is dirt cheap and fool-proof. So where is the fun?
Cloaks should never have been introduced.
They are harmful to gameplay.
Therefore a proliferation of them is not a good idea in my opinion.
*Dii falls to his knees and praises the lord that at least one person gets it*
You don't get it, the amount of 'interaction' lost is barely measurable, you have data to suggest how much interaction you lose? You're paranoid of a situation you might run into far more seldom than you will in reality. Relax folks, don't drop to your knees that easily, its bad for you.
(12-16-2015, 04:49 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Being invisible and avoiding interaction in a game that heavily depends on interaction.
Find the mistake.
Furthermore +1 to what Spazzy wrote: cloaked spying is a big nono, furthermore it is dirt cheap and fool-proof. So where is the fun?
Cloaks should never have been introduced.
They are harmful to gameplay.
Therefore a proliferation of them is not a good idea in my opinion.
*Dii falls to his knees and praises the lord that at least one person gets it*
You don't get it, the amount of 'interaction' lost is barely measurable, you have data to suggest how much interaction you lose? You're paranoid of a situation you might run into far more seldom than you will in reality. Relax folks, don't drop to your knees that easily, its bad for you.
You go from thread to thread, trying to convince people that cloaks are not negatively impacting gameplay and RP interactions.
You're denying it so hard it's pathetic.
What Jack said is the truth about cloaks and you're either insanely blind to ignore or just not self-aware of your extreme denial
Cloak usage should be severely limited to Factions and no access for indies, indies can submit their SRPs on why it is so crucial for them to use such device.
Or... you know, just join a faction so you represent them, and all of your cloaking actions will have consequences that won't only impact you.
I have idea, let's nerf all the caps, because of no-RP engagements made by Liberty indies in caps. Let's nerf trading, because of silent powertraders. Let's remove player list, because it's used for metagaming by few people.
It makes as much sense as nerfing things because of abuse.
Let us be honest, if people really want to abuse something, they will do so - even for sake of pure trolling. And which group is hurt the most? Normal users of X or Y item, not the abusers we all want to punish so much. And this is where I start to think if abuse is not caused by players which hate these items - in order to nerf them.
(12-16-2015, 07:58 PM)Traxit Wrote: You go from thread to thread, trying to convince people that cloaks are not negatively impacting gameplay and RP interactions.
You're denying it so hard it's pathetic.
What Jack said is the truth about cloaks and you're either insanely blind to ignore or just not self-aware of your extreme denial
Cloak usage should be severely limited to Factions and no access for indies, indies can submit their SRPs on why it is so crucial for them to use such device.
Or... you know, just join a faction so you represent them, and all of your cloaking actions will have consequences that won't only impact you.
Indeed, someone's got to do it. You people think you're opinions are some overwhelming majority, when really you are just the whiniest players and the loudest complainers. People using cloaks don't go posting threads about how awesome they are, or how much fun they have with them, because there's no need to go on and on about it. yet those with problems, usually those who admit they don't even use them, are always quick to jump to conclusions that cloaks are 'killing gameplay' when all of the evidence points to the contrary. So yeah, when you people who so easily think the worst case scenario is ALWAYS going to be what plays out all the time complain at the drop of a hat, those of us that don't complain unless there's an actual reason to do so, will push back. Be brave, falling victim to a cloaker won't kill you.
(12-16-2015, 07:36 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: You don't get it, the amount of 'interaction' lost is barely measurable, you have data to suggest how much interaction you lose? You're paranoid of a situation you might run into far more seldom than you will in reality.
Is it barely measurable?
I can prove the opposite.
I do not log for anything any more that has perma-cloaks.
I see Khara, and I do not log. Why? They are likely cloaked & I will not find them.
I see anything Wilde, I do not log. Why? They are likely cloaked & I will not find them.
That's a lot of situation which people would have perhaps logged for (e.g. to hunt them), but now you know that they will only engage if they want and you cannot influence it. Cloaks enable situations in which one group entirely has the power to interact or not. And this hurts interaction, if you take 1 interaction partner out completely.
Assuming that I am not the only one who treated perma-cloaky factions like this, I am pretty sure there is a solid argument that cloaks are bad for interaction.
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