' Wrote:No I was not talking about the "Supernova" as it has a range of about 2k, I was talking about the torpedo "Nova" which has 4.2k range.
I must be honest that saying a bomber sitting at range and shooting a BS is using "loopholes" is kind of a lame argument. Should I call it a loophole when I mount weapons with 500m range and a battleship shoots me at 1k?
Kiggles:mellow:
Only if the battleship keeps moving backwards so you stay out of range.
Although truly, if a battleship gets hit by a Nova at 4.2k, they deserve to die. Spearing mites with a hair fired out a gun five feet away is easier than hitting at that range.
Some of the rules I've seen used to convict 'cheaters' around here are pretty frustrating.
-Why should you not be able to use cruise engines to catch up to or close distance with an enemy? That's what they're FOR. You cant use weapons while cruising, and it takes 5 seconds of high vulnerability to enact. These limitations were put into the game to prevent abuse, we shouldnt be further restricting things with needless rules.
On a similar topic:
-Why is a person who engages cruise engines during combat considered 'dead' for pvp purposes? He wasnt killed, there should be nothing preventing him from returning to the same battle or using cruise engines to gain a bit of distance for a breather. If someone runs to a base and docks, I can see how they should be prevented from returning to a battle... but there are hiding spots in this game for a reason, if you're fighting on bad terms you should be able to hide, and then return to the fight when things are more to your liking.
These are tactics, not unlike any others. Honestly I think the only reason these rules were put forth in the first place is so people wouldnt cry when their mark got away and came back better armed for revenge. Guess what - that's life, space is a dangerous place and there's no reason to have unrealistic restrictions just so you can feel safer when you attack that lonely gunboat with three cruisers and a battleship.
And yes, if this is cheating i'll openly admit to it. Just tonight I was sittin outside manhattan, minding my own, when a pair of xenos decides to storm the place. Of course, none of the navy or police were around... they never are when they're actually needed. One xeno (who was using a liberty gunship for someodd reason) goes off to cause havoc at the planet, and the other - flying a bomber - comes after me.
So i'm sitting there, in a transport ship with minimal defensive or offensive options, and this bomber charges without warning and starts blasting away at me, antimatter cannon and all.
So let me get this straight... according to 'server rules', i'm supposed to just keel over and die? To me that seems what they imply. The xeno accused me of cheating because I used my cruise engines during the engagement several times to avoid some of his fire - never moving out of cruise disruptor range either, course he was too stupid to use them to begin with.
And for that, i'm supposed to leave the system for four hours? Ridiculous, no matter which way you look at it.
Some of these rules just make no sense at all.
Pilot and Owner of the firefly class ship Serval, salvaged from the Dallas Incident and now employed by the junkers as a trade vessel. http://www.myspace.com/cstek
The rule is primary there to avoid capship users hit cruise every time their huge shield drops and then come back again. (note that BS shields takes ages to take down)
To avoid this problem capships shouldn't use shields (just like in vanilla)..... but then they would be very difficult to fly since the camera would shake all the time.....so Igiss has said no to that....
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About your trader's experience...well hit cruise and RUN... why on earth would a trader use cruise to run around... when he fears for his life?
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
Some of the rules I've seen used to convict 'cheaters' around here are pretty frustrating.
-Why should you not be able to use cruise engines to catch up to or close distance with an enemy? That's what they're FOR. You cant use weapons while cruising, and it takes 5 seconds of high vulnerability to enact. These limitations were put into the game to prevent abuse, we shouldnt be further restricting things with needless rules.
On a similar topic:
-Why is a person who engages cruise engines during combat considered 'dead' for pvp purposes? He wasnt killed, there should be nothing preventing him from returning to the same battle or using cruise engines to gain a bit of distance for a breather. If someone runs to a base and docks, I can see how they should be prevented from returning to a battle... but there are hiding spots in this game for a reason, if you're fighting on bad terms you should be able to hide, and then return to the fight when things are more to your liking.
These are tactics, not unlike any others. Honestly I think the only reason these rules were put forth in the first place is so people wouldnt cry when their mark got away and came back better armed for revenge. Guess what - that's life, space is a dangerous place and there's no reason to have unrealistic restrictions just so you can feel safer when you attack that lonely gunboat with three cruisers and a battleship.
And yes, if this is cheating i'll openly admit to it. Just tonight I was sittin outside manhattan, minding my own, when a pair of xenos decides to storm the place. Of course, none of the navy or police were around... they never are when they're actually needed. One xeno (who was using a liberty gunship for someodd reason) goes off to cause havoc at the planet, and the other - flying a bomber - comes after me.
So i'm sitting there, in a transport ship with minimal defensive or offensive options, and this bomber charges without warning and starts blasting away at me, antimatter cannon and all.
So let me get this straight... according to 'server rules', i'm supposed to just keel over and die? To me that seems what they imply. The xeno accused me of cheating because I used my cruise engines during the engagement several times to avoid some of his fire - never moving out of cruise disruptor range either, course he was too stupid to use them to begin with.
And for that, i'm supposed to leave the system for four hours? Ridiculous, no matter which way you look at it.
Some of these rules just make no sense at all.
Right first off I reckon I know who the Rogue Gunboat belongs to, if I'm right he's allowed one, he's got a terrorist ID and everything. Secondly the Xeno Terrorist ID as it stands allows a Xeno to open up on anyone and anything, within the limits of RP and server rules. So he should have said something, however the most egregious error was your own. You cannot hit cruise for any reason unless you are directly fleeing the battle. In this case the Xeno is correct you have to leave for four hours. Although I disagree with rule book thumping in system chat.
The rule has nothing to do with roleplay, that much is true. It is not about realism, tactics or anything else other than gameplay. It is something the majority of discovery users understand. As it stands a good fight can last 45 minutes to an hour, add cruise into the mix and you're looking at never ending fights. Certainly realistic but ultimately that would lead to this being a PvP server not an RP server.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
I guess it frustrates me so much because back when i played freelancer before the discovery mod, using cruise bursts in combat was a very common tactic to throw your opponent off. It wasnt running, it was avoiding fire.
Honestly, I think I've every right to use it considering the circumstances. I'm in a transport, I have no other means of defense - I turn slower and have a harder time avoiding fire than even the gunships do, and dont have the shield capacity or weapons to stand and fight most opponents.
Pilot and Owner of the firefly class ship Serval, salvaged from the Dallas Incident and now employed by the junkers as a trade vessel. http://www.myspace.com/cstek
I can see your point, believe me I can. But unfortunately create one exception and then everyone else will chime in with perfectly good RP reasons why they should also be able to use cruise.
As it stands it's a workable system, not perfect but it does work.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
If someone engages cruise to get away from a battle, why are they kicked out of the system for four hours? They were not killed. That rule alone pretty much ruins any advantage criminals or the like have - why even have areas to 'hide' in if the second you leave the battle you cant use them anyways?
If someone is killed i can see it, they're either floating in an escape pod or dead, and shouldnt return to the system for a time to keep up that illusion in RP, but I see no logical reason why someone should be forced out of a system for trying to preserve their ship and whatever they're carrying.
Pilot and Owner of the firefly class ship Serval, salvaged from the Dallas Incident and now employed by the junkers as a trade vessel. http://www.myspace.com/cstek
its a harsh consequence to be considered "dead" for that system you fled from. - but there would be trouble with re-engagements if there wasn t that rule. ... frankly, i think it shouldn t be 4 hours, but rather a "fair amount of time" - whatever that would be.
but as you cannot make each player him/herself consider what a fair amount of time is ... we got the 4 hours to be fair to everyone.... but look at the bright side..... when the opponent leaves that system, you are free to go back.
for whatever reason, traders are excluded from the death / retreat rule. - when they are killed, they can come back... ( and be killed again ). - no idea why though. - of course its silly to come back when you were just killed - allthough, some transports can put up a good fight ( container transports for example ).
anyway - there are still two open questions about retreating...
what system does it apply to - when it comes to "not coming back" - the system that the chase started? - or the system where the chase ended.... - as some chases can last for several systems...
and.... when the chased one returns to the original system, cause the chaser left it - .... how must the chased one behave when the chaser returns to that system. - when someone has died, he must avoid this person, - as he is.... well, dead. - but when someone just retreated with his life, ship, equipment, cargo. - must he still leave aswell?
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