PvP: Newbies and Vets

[FallenKnight]

@Haste Have you thought of simply turning all fighter guns "speed" from ~600 (650/700/750) to just...800-850-900 for a test period of time? It would be easier for you to just change the number of the speed of all guns and call it a day instead to properly balance them with new damage per sec/range/speed/efficiency and etc.
A swift drastic change - for a temporary period - similar to what you've done with the Hellfire testing, will give enough info if such improvement would be healthier or not.

What Thunderer have stated is legit reason why those that do not wish to invest much time in snub alone, to master it and become vets in 1-2 years are simply going to get a gunboat or etc. I dislike the way the current fighter battles are in comparison with the "modern sci-fi" universe where guns of such small ships are simply "beam" orientated or "super fast" in order to hit "a fast agile target". Being so slow as now is really dull - I know its FL original speed for most guns but how about we test something new? Starting with more speed buffs will simply lead to more hit chances which new players to disco will benefit most...and wont be useless in mass brawls. Veterans of course would benefit most of it but in the end - they would benefit from anything due to their skills, while new players will remain pushed and accused of being unskilled.
So, what do you think?

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[Traxit]

@Haste Have you thought of simply turning all fighter guns "speed" from ~600 (650/700/750) to just...800-850-900 for a test period of time?

Horrible Idea.

I did some PvP in the Crossfire mod Server, and there are guns with 1100 speed, and let me tell you, you gotta strafe and slide like crazy if you don't want to get hit, and if you sit still(box) you're gonna die. So higher speeds would mean more dodging, and more dodging would mean it would break some techniques that relied on the slowness of the speed of the guns. Besides, do we need to make aiming easier because PvP Vets would just destroy people with higher speeds while the less experienced would get a chance.

Also shotgun weapon speed(3.03 and lower) was always 650ms and lower(with a few exceptions with some 3.03s having 700ms) and that would mean it required skill to actually hit, you gotta predict the enemy and blindfire, upping the speed would mean making shotguns one of the best type of weaponry because you can deliver so much damage in one press of a button with ease if you would increase the speed.

And if you decide to not buff the speed of shotguns, then higher speeds are just a better way to go because you can easily hit whilist shotguns require too much skill to bother because why aim when you have ezpz speeds.

And don't forget ships that are very big(Like the Werewolf and bigger) that would be extremely easy to hit, maybe even nigh impossible to miss if you're a veteran because of the weapon speed.

tl;dr: increasing the weapon speeds would make PvP much easier but also for the veterans who absolutely slaughter everyone.

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[Lythrilux]

tl;dr: increasing the weapon speeds would make PvP much easier but also for the veterans who absolutely slaughter everyone.

it might make it easier for the vets but it'll close the skill gap if anything.

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[Traxit]

tl;dr: increasing the weapon speeds would make PvP much easier but also for the veterans who absolutely slaughter everyone.

it might make it easier for the vets but it'll close the skill gap if anything.

Haha no.

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[Lythrilux]

The crux of the issue is that snub PvP isn't accessible. It needs to be made easier. I don't think there's any sort of way you could make it more accessible for noobs without making it more accessible for vets.

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[Corile]

But snub PVP is not inaccessible. The only thing it lacks is a proper tutorial.

I attempted to do that a few times but I don't have the patience for it.

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[Antonio]

But snub PVP is not inaccessible. The only thing it lacks is a proper tutorial.

This. Mastering a snub takes a lot more time and work than mastering caps. Without tutorials or any kind of guides it's really difficult for a new player to get into snub fighting when he can be good in caps a lot quicker. People coming from vanilla (who flew Vhfs only) are past, and new ones usually don't care if they're in a snub or a cap, just that they're relevant in a fight.

[FallenKnight]

A swift drastic change - for a temporary period - similar to what you've done with the Hellfire testing, will give enough info if such improvement would be healthier or not.

@Traxit All you said is true, but you missed my point, so I quoted the important sentence of my suggestion to Haste. I did not said "go buff speed and end of story". Considering the Hellfire Testing Period, which I am sure the devs collected interesting data to assist them in their work - I guess such a test would definitely be of assistance to them as well.

Your statements are again - legit - but even so we all know that PVP in snubs is slow...very slow, especially for vets. So my guess is that if the speed of all guns is slightly or moderately increased - then the time in these PVP scenarios (btw snubs) will be greatly reduced, which will also give chances to less unskilled to score few sure hits on their targets instead to die miserably and rage or quit.
Also, if speed to guns happens - there wont be need for shotgun setups or slower weapons - tbh all weapons need to be above 4.00 refire, higher speed BUT little damage in order to make hits easier to land and skill to determine if you would be able to remain on target and keep landing hits or turn evasive due to multiple snubs on your tail.

Current PVP in snubs - Dull, Super Slow, Heavy Skill Dependent. It simply needs to be more: Fun, Dynamic, Moderate Skill Dependent. FL as it is is aim and shoot - to land hits, so making speed greater will assist in "landing hits" as from then on dps and such - are dev's job to handle, not ours.

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[Findarato Veneanar]

Snub PVP is as said before at its basics a FPS game, the whole vanilla game has you constantly in snub fights against gear level matched npcs so many newbies may believe they stand a chance against snub vets, now i am no vetern expert in snub pvp and won't pretend to have any idea of how to balance it for newbies and vets, However, an issue raised here is newbies being driven into capwhoring, obviously gunboats are meant to kill snubs, that's all fine and good, what is not good is newbies flying cruisers and larger around so that they have a chance of killing helpless players in snubs, as i mentioned in another thread i propose we basically remove combat between true capships and snubs, if newbies join and find they do not enjoy fighting against often far more skilled snub pvp pilots buying a capital ship for pvp will become a community sanctioned option, as they will not be hurting the game play of all the players that fly snubs, there are also several other large advantages to this change as i am sure many players here can imagine.

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[Traxit]

but even so we all know that PVP in snubs is slow...very slow, especially for vets.

That depends on the players and their skill. And cap battles are slow too, as fair as I know.

So my guess is that if the speed of all guns is slightly or moderately increased - then the time in these PVP scenarios (btw snubs) will be greatly reduced, which will also give chances to less unskilled to score few sure hits on their targets instead to die miserably and rage or quit.

You're right, that would make snub PvP faster, but as I've said above, it depends on the players and how they fly. So for all you know, it would make fights slightly faster, or insanely faster.

Also, if speed to guns happens - there wont be need for shotgun setups or slower weapons - tbh all weapons need to be above 4.00 refire, higher speed BUT little damage in order to make hits easier to land and skill to determine if you would be able to remain on target and keep landing hits or turn evasive due to multiple snubs on your tail.

Shotguns have been apart of Freelancer since vanilla, I see no reason to remove them because they have their own skill. Most people would agree that 8.33s are the easiest guns in the game and that shotguns are the hardest to master. The reason 8.33s are so easy is because aim is not a huge problem in Freelancer unless you're a really unexperienced PvPer.

Current PVP in snubs - Dull, Super Slow, Heavy Skill Dependent. It simply needs to be more: Fun, Dynamic, Moderate Skill Dependent. FL as it is is aim and shoot - to land hits, so making speed greater will assist in "landing hits" as from then on dps and such - are dev's job to handle, not ours.

As I said above, it depends on the players and their skill. Any shooter game is "Aim and shoot".
You're suggesting to buff the speed so people can land hits easier, basically you're saying to make PvP easier for everyone, including Veterans, just imagine Yber entering New York and coming out with 5 blues single-handedly because he didn't miss 75% of his shots, devastating, innit?

I don't think experimenting the speed of guns is a problem, but it'll just prove my points... or not. (Not to mention the huge work to re-type the weapon speeds for hundreds of guns/turrets).

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