Firstly, if you're using NPC's as a guide - (which we shouldn't because quite frankly people use NPC's when it supports their point of view and ignore them when it doesn't) - then looking at the inhabitants of alaska... Order, Navy and BHG.... its easily conceivable that with all those people having access to the Codes to the gate that that information would not be able to be kept secret. Added to that, with the known Corruption of the LPI, who also it seems from reading on here, have access to the gate, then its also concievable that they would sell that information.
In fact, thats completly how i would justify it - I bribed someone to get the codes, or i beat up a bounty hunter to get them, or i shot down and captured a navy pilot who had them in his wallet - my point is there are all kinds of good Role Play reasons why a shady nefarious character might be able to find access to this gate......
Now added to that if you say that the Order has access to it? well... that basically ensures that the Corsairs do as well, as well as their friends etc etc etc......
As for Alaska being secret - Xing has a point in terms of RP. But i see it a little differently, perhaps Alaska might be secret for lawfuls and agencies that stay within the boundaries of the Liberty Laws... but for unlawfuls? who couldn't give a hoot what the Liberty rules say? Again.. they have access to the jumpholes on the other side of the system, the Corsairs and outcasts have extensive reach both militarily and in terms of knowledge of jumpholes (lets face it they need them to survive) - and again, particularly in terms of the Corsairs, their allies the Order are sitting on those jumpholes. As such, to me, its simply inconceivable that these groups in particular would have no knowledge of Alaska.
The way I've always seen it - is that the system IS open in the mod - and it's known. I've always felt it is the responsibility of the Liberty players to enforce that Zone 21 rule, NOT the responsibility of the unlawfuls to self-police in this case (especially when there are ample RP reasons for them to be able to get there as i have stated). I constantly hear about liberty being a "cap ship" haven, but i am yet to see any kind of regular guard sitting at the gap in the minefield. - was this to be a regular occurance, were smugglers, traders etc etc to encounter regular resistance here, i gaurentee you they would double think coming through Alaska.
Its not the unlawfuls problem that the Liberty lawfuls cant always watch it. They aren't there to help them! Its an unlawfuls RP to take full advantage of any weakness or gap in law enforcement to their advantage - If liberty cannot protect her own borders effectively that is their own problem the way i see it.
The LPI has explicitly stated they look the other way (literally) when passing the Texas tradelane. You don't see policemen in military bases, or in a military base like the one at Groom Lake. The system is also not used for minerals, but for secret research and military operations.
Bounty Hunters should not have access to Zone 21. Not even the majority of the Navy and LSF do, according to the SP campaign. Even if your character had the codes, he'd be shot to pieces by the Navy and LSF patrols in the area, the experimental systems, and goodness-knows what else before you could as much pass Juneau.
The sheer power of the forces within Alaska would make any attacks through or to Alaska suicidal and ridiculous, equivalent to the Mafia attacking a military base or, as Unseelie once said, someone trying to smuggle cocaine through A51.
The Outcasts? They wouldn't want to go near the Order's territory, a Corsair ally and killer of the "Great Spirits" that guard their ships, or the Corsairs territory for that matter. They also have absolutely no reason to go there, as they can strike at Liberty far more safely and effectively using their puppets in the Rogues and Hackers. They also have far safer smuggling routes, and where would they even get the codes to the gate?
' Wrote:What would be wrong with that, RP wise? The system has no real resources so what's the JG for anyway?
Couple of reasons:
-Alaska houses two prison stations which hold the most dangerous criminals in all of Sirius - everything from terrorist leaders to spies and assassins.
-The shipyard in Alaska is liberty's prototype production and testing facility for new military ship types. Who knows what they could be building there? It's classified. They could have cloaking devices, Weapons capable of destroying battleships in a single volley, or even tamed or cloned nomads as prototype tools of the liberty military.
EDIT:
As for your 'hey, i just got the codes in such and such manner" as a way to get past things...
What makes you think the codes to the gate arent routinely altered? Every week, Every day, even every hour the entry codes could be changed, and only relayed to permitted liberty officials via covert LSF agents.
The LPI does not have access to alaska. They are a company, not a government-funded group - and they are police, not military operatives. Their job is to stop smugglers and petty criminals, not to get in the way of matters of house security from foreign entities.
' Wrote:Heh, cloaked roaming Navy guard and LSF guard capship patrols? Now that would be a deterrent.
Do cloaks exist in this mod? Oh, and if they do can NPC's or players shoot while cloaked?
Just a random point, I've seen outcast NPC's fly in and around Z21. I've also seen them get pretty close to the JG but get shot down by the weapon platforms there. And, no I haven't seen any in Alaska.
' Wrote:The LPI has explicitly stated they look the other way (literally) when passing the Texas tradelane. You don't see policemen in military bases, or in a military base like the one at Groom Lake. The system is also not used for minerals, but for secret research and military operations.
Bounty Hunters should not have access to Zone 21. Not even the majority of the Navy and LSF do, according to the SP campaign. Even if your character had the codes, he'd be shot to pieces by the Navy and LSF patrols in the area, the experimental systems, and goodness-knows what else before you could as much pass Juneau.
The sheer power of the forces within Alaska would make any attacks through or to Alaska suicidal and ridiculous, equivalent to the Mafia attacking a military base or, as Unseelie once said, someone trying to smuggle cocaine through A51.
The Outcasts? They wouldn't want to go near the Order's territory, a Corsair ally and killer of the "Great Spirits" that guard their ships, or the Corsairs territory for that matter. They also have absolutely no reason to go there, as they can strike at Liberty far more safely and effectively using their puppets in the Rogues and Hackers. They also have far safer smuggling routes, and where would they even get the codes to the gate?
15 years have passed since the campaign. Things may have changed.
Bounty Hunter NPC's have access to Alaska, so it'd be pretty hard to say it's not in BH RP to go there.
They could get the codes from the Lane Hackers, former Ageira employees who know all about Tradelane and Gate Technology and are capable of hacking gates. Sounds feasible.
Edit: I was replying to Praetyre's paragraph about the outcasts.
Therefore, what I meant to say was, "the outcasts could get the codes from the Lane Hackers, former Ageira employees who know all about Tradelane and Gate Technology and are capable of hacking gates. Sounds feasible."
' Wrote:15 years have passed since the campaign. Things may have changed.
Bounty Hunter NPC's have access to Alaska, so it'd be pretty hard to say it's not in BH RP to go there.
They could get the codes from the Lane Hackers, former Ageira employees who know all about Tradelane and Gate Technology and are capable of hacking gates. Sounds feasible.
Edit: Removed BH/LH comment in light of other edits. The edits in response to the edits have been edited in the edit.
The notion of the Lane Hackers being able to poke at the Alaska gate in order to get the boulder to roll aside the opening 'o that particular cave is something that I've pondered on.
I can't help but feel that, should they be inclined to do so, it would take a little more effort than anticipating the cargo and timing of the next group of transports running down the pipe.
Not to say that it's necessarily beyond their capabilities, but I reckon it would take a little more effort than some smug computer nerd flipping a data disk at you with the most secure gate in Sirius' security code's... The word escapes me... At any rate, the ability for you to simply crack the gate at will to pass on through with your tradeship or what-have-you.
I'd imagine it'd be a somewhat involved affair for them to grab the codes, something a bit more hands on than your little bribe could likely afford. Especially for the 'never been captured alive' faction to risk.
My thoughts anyways, can't say as they carry much weight when discussing a faction that's not my own.
' Wrote:I'd find it curious indeed if the BH are securing codes from the Lane Hackers to find their way into Alaska, if that's what you're suggesting.
The notion of the Lane Hackers being able to poke at the Alaska gate in order to get the boulder to roll aside the opening 'o that particular cave is something that I've pondered on.
I can't help but feel that, should they be inclined to do so, it would take a little more effort than anticipating the cargo and timing of the next group of transports running down the pipe.
Not to say that it's necessarily beyond their capabilities, but I reckon it would take a little more effort than some smug computer nerd flipping a data disk at you with the most secure gate in Sirius' security code's... The word escapes me... At any rate, the ability for you to simply crack the gate at will to pass on through with your tradeship or what-have-you.
I'd imagine it'd be a somewhat involved affair for them to grab the codes, something a bit more hands on than your little bribe could likely afford. Especially for the 'never been captured alive' faction to risk.
My thoughts anyways, can't say as they carry much weight when discussing a faction that's not my own.
Corrected that error. I meant outcasts. Sorry about that.
"As for your 'hey, i just got the codes in such and such manner" as a way to get past things...
What makes you think the codes to the gate arent routinely altered? Every week, Every day, even every hour the entry codes could be changed, and only relayed to permitted liberty officials via covert LSF agents.
The LPI does not have access to alaska. They are a company, not a government-funded group - and they are police, not military operatives."
Yep - no prob, lets say they ARE routinely changed - thats fine, and those who know how to get them get the changes as well. If the entire LSF and Liberty navy has access to these codes (which im assuming they do by the fact that they can go in and out of the gate at will) then its easy to concieve of security leaks.
More to the point - even if they are secure, its been conceded the Order has them - which means the Corsairs do... and tell me they wouldn't sell them to the highest bidder.... and then why wouldn't those people then sell them to anyone else who might be interested?
My original point still stands - it is the RP of the Liberty Lawfuls to police and enforce the Zone 21 rule, not the unlawfuls who can RP a reason to get in and out of there.
@ Praetyr:
Quote:
The sheer power of the forces within Alaska would make any attacks through or to Alaska suicidal and ridiculous, equivalent to the Mafia attacking a military base or, as Unseelie once said, someone trying to smuggle cocaine through A51.
I can see that when it comes to attacks through this system - unless of course the attacker comes with sufficient force, or in the case of the order... sufficient stealth or planning, to get through.
It is possible to move through the Alaska system and avoid military and BH patrols... all you have to do is go wide.... the only choke points are the jumpholes and the gate... Again... just because the military have a presence there doesn't mean people will automatically stay away - specially for smugglers where the lure of profits is worth the risk.... and again... its the Lawfuls job to catch the unlawfuls.. it is not the job of the unlawfuls to make this easy for them
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