Admin Notice: Faction Diplomacy Changes

[Vendetta]

This is something I personally see as making sense. Yeah the process might not be swift, but hey, at least going to war with a group will have lasting effects, especially for groups (not pointing fingers at myself here) who have diplomacy changes and fragile links frequently.

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[Durandal]

Yep, this'd be a great way for my faction to get shafted in an incident which with it was not involved in any capacity. We already have enough rules and regulations that punish the innocent because of a few stupid people.

You want to point the finger at faction leaders? Try actually talking to them and dealing with things on a case by case basis (yes, that includes some form of punishment per LEADER, not FACTION, should they massively screw up) rather than wading blindly through sanction reports and trying to make up blanket rules to cover every possible scenario when each scenario is unique and needs to be treated uniquely.

[Garrett Jax]

Yep, this'd be a great way for my faction to get shafted in an incident which with it was not involved in any capacity. We already have enough rules and regulations that punish the innocent because of a few stupid people.

You want to point the finger at faction leaders? Try actually talking to them and dealing with things on a case by case basis (yes, that includes some form of punishment per LEADER, not FACTION, should they massively screw up) rather than wading blindly through sanction reports and trying to make up blanket rules to cover every possible scenario when each scenario is unique and needs to be treated uniquely.

Things ignorant people say ^

Nobody talks to faction leaders more than I do. Why don't you educate yourself with the facts before you post? I'm really getting annoyed with your ignorant rants.

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[Widow]

Just means you can't decide to change where a 'faction A' stands with 'faction B' with no RP or warning - which isn't a bad thing.

As it stands you need to RP to change diplomacy to friendly (allied) if you want to get tech stuff of whatever.... right? Why not have to RP to go hostile to shoot them?

Seems reasonable enough.



And lets be realistic here. After the initial freak out of RP and requests for the changes needing to be done because everything was out of date or whatever, I don't think it will be a massive increase in paperwork.... Do we really think this kinda thing happens as often as what everyone is suggesting?

If it is... Maybe this will stop the chopping and changing of relations as people see fit/when it suits them. Again.... Not a bad thing.

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As an additional note: Paperwork should have been kept relatively up to date.... I know I have the same problem with not having done so on a few things - but who can we really blame other than ourselves for that?

Why not just get each faction to submit what they want changed in one post as a one time review (and/or guide for what needs to be changed for each ID), highlighting what is being changed from what is already written in the info pages. Still be a lot of work, but at least that way it'll be easier to see what is being changed and easier to review/process..... hopefully.

[Jack_Henderson]

Garret, give us official factions a few days to go over our lists again.
Many of these lists were not taken too seriously, just because (for most factions) they never change.

In general, I agree with the decision to have an eye on the diplomacy development.

I am not THAT fond of doing it via the FR5 process because FR5 (when worse than no-dock) carries game-breaking consequences in many many cases for the faction hit with the FR5 (via NPC empathy settings).

Therefore, I suggest using FR5s very carefully.

Furthermore, diplomacy changes should never be done in the heat of the moment. E.g. pushing out tons of FR5s against Core atm because there is some Delta fun would be wrong, in my opinion. Not every shot transport is a reason for full-blown hostility - look at real life politics: e.g. Turkey-Russia after the plane was downed... a classic "roleplay" consequence, likely even short of a no-docking rephack. Sorry for RL comparison, but it somewhat comes to the mind intuitively.

tldr:

> Factions need a few days to get their pages up to date. That's essential. And these things need discussions between factions and HQs, etc. So... I suggest Sunday. There is no hurry in it, is there?

> Please don't make FR5s a frequent thing, and be aware of game breaking "rep to red" FR5s via empathy.

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[Garrett Jax]

The Admins will listen to all reasonable suggestions. Just cut back on the ignorant comments, guys, because I'm already triggered and I don't want to have go full Xenomorph on you.

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[Grumblesaur]

The Admins will listen to all reasonable suggestions. Just cut back on the ignorant comments, guys, because I'm already triggered and I don't want to have go full Xenomorph on you.

Yes, we're 'ignorant' because we aren't privy to discussions held on a board not visible to non-administrators.

EDIT: Or for that matter, PMs between admins and other users.

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[Altejago]

All I can see this is, is basically FR5 requests have just become dual way and published officially.

What's the big deal?

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[Garrett Jax]

All I can see this is, is basically FR5 requests have just become dual way and published officially.

What's the big deal?

Exactly. Thanks for summing it up so succinctly, Alte.

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[Antonio]

Why not just make "declaration of war" threads mandatory, just like we have with base attacks?

Because of the possibility that the Admins would not approve of the declaration.

Comment every one of them with admin green "Approved" or "Denied" perhaps? You could rule the declarations are live only once there's admin green on it, and only if approved.

This seems like a better version of what is suggested in the op, with the only notable difference compared to submitting an fr5 being transparency which, as you know, people always love.

About the change itself, I don't know how to feel about it. It'll definitely add more paperwork to you admins, which I'm sure you have plenty of already. I'm curious though, if one faction submits the new request to change another faction to hostile (or friendly/neutral/nodock), does it work both ways? I can't think of a case in which it shouldn't, and it'd reduce additional paperwork that'd come from the reported side. It can simply be done by talking to the people in charge of said factions that are getting fr5ed and asking if they agree or not.