PvP = RP - I was ganked

[pillow]

There's an error which both you and Phantom made.

I'm not negative. I'm simply not expecting something good. I have fun like 99.9% of the time I play without expectations of good things to happen.

Ah, well. I was being the negative one then. My bad.

[HassLHoFF™]

I seriously don't get it. What is that special about realistically RPing a mortal char? Is this that special? Are you seriously complaining that neccessary feature of RP? If that is the fact and seeing people leading official factions while having this opinion and throwing out such statements how RP within this game should work or is part off...Advising such quality RP like "Dildo.exe started". Well then it's time to leave for me and lastly advising changing the title of this Community and Server to "Discovery Moderate RP", because you have made this Mod getting a complete hypocritical thing.

So aside from that. Why are you actually playing this mod? And please don't throw out answers like "Because it's fun or because of my friends I have here."

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[Shryke]

I seriously don't get it. What is that special about realistically RPing a mortal char? Is this that special? Are you seriously complaining that neccessary feature of RP? If that is the fact and seeing people leading official factions while having this opinion and throwing out such statements how RP within this game should work or is part off...Advising such quality RP like "Dildo.exe started". Well then it's time to leave for me and lastly advising changing the title of this Community and Server to "Discovery Moderate RP", because you have made this Mod getting a complete hypocritical thing.

So aside from that. Why are you actually playing this mod? And please don't throw out answers like "Because it's fun or because of my friends I have here."

I don't understand what you're trying to say. That people should treat their characters as mortal, that if they were blown up in game that they should be permanently killed?

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[Omi]

I seriously don't get it. What is that special about realistically RPing a mortal char? Is this that special? Are you seriously complaining that neccessary feature of RP? If that is the fact and seeing people leading official factions while having this opinion and throwing out such statements how RP within this game should work or is part off...Advising such quality RP like "Dildo.exe started". Well then it's time to leave for me and lastly advising changing the title of this Community and Server to "Discovery Moderate RP", because you have made this Mod getting a complete hypocritical thing.

So aside from that. Why are you actually playing this mod? And please don't throw out answers like "Because it's fun or because of my friends I have here."

... Why are you actually playing this mod? And please don't throw out answers like "Because it's fun ...

Are you for real right now? Of course I'm playing it because it's fun. Why else would I be here? I'm certainly not here to enhance your sense of roleplay quality, first and foremost - I am here wholly for my own enjoyment. However, that doesn't mean I have to dick over everyone else in the pursuit of whatever RP or PvP I want to get up to.

I am seriously concerned by your inability to grasp this simple concept. Perhaps it's the language barrier, but your championing of RP above literally all else is something I cannot possibly hope to either comprehend or agree with. Furthermore, I don't like the words you're putting into my mouth with regards the quality of RP you're suggesting I advocate. I'd like to ask you to stop that, too.

Lastly - yes, this is a moderate RP server, whether it likes to admit it or not - primarily because this is a game. This is not a movie or a novel - nobody is here to see themselves get turned into a fine paste by a group of players with no regard for the person(s) on the other side of the screen. I am not sure how you can hope to promote the sort of attitude that encourages this sort of meat-grinder behaviour without feeling like a bad guy, because I can assure you that the self-satisfied feeling you might get as you enforce 'realistic consequences' on someone else's character is not reciprocated on the other side of the screen. Nobody who gets ganked sits back and appreciates their role in the grand tapestry that you view your own RP as.

It's really, really not that hard to even pretend to be considerate of other players. Every other blip on your scanner - pink, green, white or red - all of them are here to have fun just as much as you are. If you can't even manage the simple courtesy of even trying to treat others with a modicum of respect and fair play, even if it impinges your precious sense of roleplay and/or immersion, then perhaps you should consider leaving after all.

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[Thyrzul]

It will never cease to amaze me how closed-minded and selfish people in this community can be. It's as if half of you consider the other players in game to be just the supporting cast of characters floating alongside your own personal bubble.

[and the rest]

Quite ironic and hypocritical to see that from you. From a lot of those advocating gameplay and fun over RP, ignoring that some of us may be here for the RP, that for some of us RP is the fun.

Quite hypocritical when I propose a possible middle ground, and all the responses following are mockery of it such as "ok, my RP is that my char is an ace pilot, you are obliged to die now because muh RP", or that no matter who or where you are, you should provide fair play.

I mean I could be just like you folks, arguing for my own absolute, the total opposite end of the spectrum, that no matter where you are, you should be prepared to have your a$$ ganked like there is no tomorrow, because that makes sense inRP. But I don't. Instead I try to look for a common ground to possibly please both sides of the conflict. Expect to be ganked when you assault one's home, but you can rightfully cry if you got no fair fight in neutral/contested space. I haven't seen anyone commenting anything valuable and sensible to that ever since I posted my proposal on the first page, we are at five pages now.

Don't you realize that while speaking all about "consideration of others' fun", you end up no better than what you think of the other side of the arguement? When will you consider the fun of those who enjoy getting immersed into RP, including that when one's character is threatened at home, they may defend themselves at all costs?

I am proposing a consensus: in some places of the game, neutral, contested space pvp, gameplay, fairplay is to take precedent, such as general Tau, Sigma, Omega, Omicron sectors, non-Core worlds, non-Capitals, non-Homeworlds. In other places, home bases, systems, RP immersion is to take precedent, such as Faction home worlds, Capital systems, or if no clear home system is designed, then vicinity of home bases, like a 10k around them or such.

The aim of this proposal is to allow room for both groups to have fun without any debates like this arising. So can I expect all of you folks to grow a pair and discuss the issue in a mature manner, obviously considering others' fun at least a little bit more than how you used to claim before? We RP-ers understand that we aren't the only ones here to have fun, would you please be so kind to do the same and understand that you aren't the only ones either, so in the end we can have fun together?

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[Swifty]

But the arguments in question are a product of reason. It's simply idiotic to carry a negative attitude towards encounters. That in itself undermines the servers own sustainability. Ergo, n00bl3t's post was stupid.

Quick question Lyth.

Weren't you the same guy who promised the same "If you come in our home-system, expect heavy resistance with minimal warning" to all Order/Nomad/Non allowed faction players who entered rho for the same reason Core entered Mu/Gamma some time ago? When The Core built Invicta Research station to be more precise.

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[Lythrilux]

Weren't you the same guy who promised the same "If you come in our home-system, expect heavy resistance with minimal warning" to all Order/Nomad/Non allowed faction players who entered rho for the same reason Core entered Mu/Gamma some time ago? When The Core built Invicta Research station to be more precise.

Indeed I was. However I didn't make that statement with the basis of "RP > Gameplay" in mind. My justification was Invicta itself (although I guess from one angle that could be seen as an RP reason, but our reasons related to the ooRP enjoyment and desires of the builders). Now POBs are a tricky matter here, and actually I'm glad you brought the point up as it'll be good for the discussion. I'll expand upon my point.

Now normally you'd have each aforementioned faction raiding each others home systems respectively. Normal PvP etiquette would apply (or at least in most of those systems, as certain factions have a very sketchy view of etiquette much like some viewpoints expressed in this thread). So for example Core would raid Gamma and there'd be shooty shooty and Corsairs would raid Delta/Rho and there'd be shooty shooty and the end product would be a normal raid. However the construction, and later siege of Invicta Research Complex, flipped this on it's head.

Core spent hours upon hours and invested much time supplying, upgrading and maintaining IRC at this point (you were one of those players Carter). When the Corsairs decided to come and siege it we were literally only a few dozen loads of RA or so to a Core upgrade. Prior to this there was some sort of mutual agreement between the Core and Order playerbases as both factions had POBs within their home systems and didn't want to cause upset to each other nor create the sort of storm the Corsair side initiated. Admittedly I did try to warn the Corsair side prior as a POB siege cannot be differentiated from a raid, and therefore we'd be fighting with much more ferocity. Unfortunately they did not listen, and the end result was a huge wound inflicted by both sides on each others respective playerbases. I'd like to say it's healed considerably since then though. Anyway, as soon as the siege had begun things had just hit the fan. The Core side couldn't trust Corsair ships being even one jump away from Omicron Rho because a dead Core ship meant one less ship to defend IRC from Corsair attack. We had to treat everything as a potential attacker. And when the eventual Rho raid occurred The Core side didn't have the option to hold back because if all The Core ships died in combat there'd be no one to protect Invicta. This was also back when The Core had little in terms of indies, therefore Core| were the only reliable defenders for Invicta. And thus the entire siege devolved into a gank fest. Due to the flimsy POB mechanics we had back then we didn't have the opportunity to wait for the POB siege to timeout, so it became a matter of trying to demotivate the Corsair side from raiding Invicta.

And it's the same thing back when I was leading JM and we had PLR and other Rogues trying to raid Spire. We pulled no punches. As soon as we saw a hostile Rogue near Spire we piled on it with whatever we had because either A. That Rogue might want to kill some potential defenders early so they wouldn't be around to assist against the main siege, B. That Rogue might want to shoot the POB and so it'd be efficient to clean it up quickly or C. Killing it ASAP would mean we'd be able to dent the Rogues numbers prior to the main siege.

Tactics, and defence of a player asset in which endless hours of time that had been invested in it were at risk, overwrote notions of fairplay and gameplay because we didn't have access to that luxury. POB siegers won't play by the same rules as POB defenders. It becomes a game of dog eat dog. And whilst unfortunately the siegers would be very unhappy that they got the sort of defensive response they did and were unable to destroy the POB (but is that even a bad thing?), if the POB was destroyed there would be much upset and no ounce of fun for the defending side.

In my experience POB sieges are just hugely stressful and aren't fun at all. It's a horrible process for the defenders to go through because they have to worry so much about the POB itself and they're forced to stomp anything that tries to shoot it, and it's a horrible process for the attackers because they have to put up waves upon waves of multiple, merciless ships willing to defend their POB to the death (and that's on top of the POBs own health).

tl;dr POB sieges are a horrible part of Disco that honestly bring out the worst in everyone.

Nowadays because not only do we have better POB siege mechanics (still not perfect, but much more manageable), but also Invicta is Core 3 (or 4?) as well as the fact that Core| doesn't own IRC anymore, Rho raids and even Delta raids pose no risk. We don't have that element of needing to worry about IRC being attacked and therefore we don't need to go HAM on anything that comes near Rho. Being able to relax is such a nice feeling and these days I couldn't care less if someone blows us up in Rho. It's a great joy being able to function with normal pvp etiquette, as I assure you going out of your way to curbstomp is neither fun nor ethically pleasing. It's just a shame that Rho feels so... out of the way in the Omicrons? It's hard to explain, but I wish people raided it more often.

I digress though. This has nothing to do with the 'RP > Gameplay' topic as our decision was not RP based. This was more about the effort of players being at risk rather than their fun (although if you find fun in supplying a POB for hours upon hours then I guess that's your shtick) and if that effort was to, quite literally, explode in a ball of flames there would be much upset afterwards. The difficulty was that the actions we would take would also upset the other side however. In the end, when it comes to POB sieges, no one benefits nor wins. Everyone loses, regardless of the outcome.

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[Doria]

To try to be fair, Prime could have tried to not gank the guy 5v1, although we all know that indies are practicaly impossible to control on a fight.
If they had done that right from the start it would be bad. Aparently they did not, and talked to the guy at least for some time, warning him to go away from their home planet.

BUT someone comming to a home system and trying to talk after multiple warnings to go away is ignoring the RP side of the server, to me as much as a trader "kill me, it's cheaper" attitude.

[HassLHoFF™]

@Thyrzul
Finally there is one, providing something constructive with an intention of solving a problem we have.

@Lythrilux
That being said by one of the most active base siegers recently.
Got you here, ooRP reasons justify ganks, inRP reasons don't. *facepalm*

Again, I am NOT talking about justifying "GANKS". I am talking about players disrespecting the slightest feature of RPing, that is "Care about your virtual life". If you don't agree me here, sorry, this is the wrong place for you or the title of this place is wrong.

It is a matter of fact. Discovery doesn't lack in having pvp, we already see here, that we have a lot"blue-hunters-only" who don't care about RP in anyway. The point is it entirely lacks in having solid RP. Is it so much necessary to provoke combat over combat, which in the case of PRIME resulted into ganking and Laz crying afterwards? Sorry, the only thing I see here is very bad RP or even non-RP from Laz. Wouldn't it had made more sense trying to escape or retreat? Result had been that there wouldn't had been a gank, the situation would had been resolved realistically inRP and everyone would had been happy and maybe had fun.

@"Omicega"
Well, you haven't answered the question correctly. Why do you mention something like a language barrier? Should this be a provocation? Anything I just see right now is someone leading an official faction claiming to have a fairfight intention that contains both sides have fun, but actively calling for a gank, because someone want and support to have a descent RP experience?
In regards of putting words in your mouth. I just refer to your support of Ybers crew, who mostly provide such quality RP in game I previously mentioned. Fun for everyone, ehh, seeing drones named aimbot.exe etc saying such things like "Dildo.exe started".

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[Swifty]

Going back two pages, I see a few triggery things. So, let me explain this to you in a way you can all understand.

It doesn't matter who ganks, who gets ganked and who will or will not get ganked. This has been going on for Years, people, this isn't new to the server itself or 'oldies' either. It's still the same story where two sides argue over something stupid, and I, myself, don't expect it to change anytime soon.

I've been part of both sides, the ganker side and the ganked side. The difference is one feels crappier than the other, but In the end It always ends the same, either one escapes and doesn't give the blue but will not be satisfied (or will be amused because "mwahaha no blue for you punks") or they get the blue and live in peace thinking they accomplished something. 1 out of two will be unhappy either way. Deal with it. Move on with the thought that they will receive their piece back with the first occasion and stop complaining over something that isn't new to this server, but it's rather very old. It's not a big deal. Ruin their fun like they did with yours till they get the message, because as it seems now, two sides are arguing stupidly over something irrelevant, pointing fingers like there Is no tomorrow, eventually still accomplishing nothing.

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