I could sign, just for the sake of Karst or Meph but I have already promised myself to commit some hours of my time to the mod this weekend. Total civil war is not an answer here, Justin. We ought to mantain stability of this mod, not to join the chaos.
Edit: Yber had it most right. If you want to change it, you should stop throwing crap over staff as it goes nowhere, get your collective asses together and do co-ordinated action that at least possesses a shadow of proffesionalism if you want to change something.
(07-01-2016, 07:58 PM)Yber Wrote: In the light of the stance taken by the dev team:
- Every tutorial and guide made by XTF or me has been removed from the forums
- All videos uploaded to the youtube channel YberDC have been made private.
This is done in support of @Chuba and @Mephistoles in particular. The situation is unacceptable and the behaviour of the admin team even more so.
You are punishing the players of the community that learn from these videos? well ... maybe you are punishing the admins?
I can't understand some attitudes here, i mean are you guys for real? are you going to help with everything you have to decrease the population of this server and kill it?
It's not fair when a great server like this one, have people that keep pressing on it's wounds while bleeding thinking that it helps ... not fair and so sad.
Six people were removed in an effort to improve the community, unwise in method perhaps but done with good intentions has now sparked rifts and feuds within the community that could do more damage than any of the six banned.
"Official Notice - Development " - This is all I saw from the title and I hoped for some serious development results, like dx9, tons of new features, etc...
(07-01-2016, 08:58 PM)Croft Wrote: Six people were removed in an effort to improve the community, unwise in method perhaps but done with good intentions has now sparked rifts and feuds within the community that could do more damage than any of the six banned.
You sum it up pretty well and I rather avoid unnecesary actions. Add to that, salty Polish space marine wasn't even notified until it was already in effect. Pro-level communications right there.
Quote:The Discovery Development Team Wrote:
1.) The Administration shall make available in full all forum and skype discussion which led to the decision to ban the aforementioned individuals.
2.) The Administration shall concede to any further terms laid out after the discourse and evidence requested above is reviewed by the development team, should we deem more terms necessary to continue work on the mod.
3.) This thread will not be moderated to an unreasonable extent, locked, removed, or made invisible.
Welp, this situation escalated exponentially.
The reaction is understandable. When a person's sense of what is fair and just gets assaulted, most people will react with varying degrees of angst.
However, let's look long term, assuming this blows over in time, which it will.
The Admins, no matter what they finally decide to do, will still need the authority to enforce rules and protect gameplay. By setting this precedent of striking until you get what you demand, you undermine the authority the Admins need to perform their function. Without this authority, the Server will collapse upon itself and devolve into anarchy and very quickly, death. I can't see the Admins allowing the server to exist very long in this scenario.
What will happen if this strike continues? Well, it's already starting to happen. Demands are being made for information that the Community is not entitled to have. If I were still Admin, there is no way I would agree to pass on confidential conversations to satisfy each and every Community member. First, there is no way to make everyone happy about each decision made by the Staff, and it would become impossible for the Admins to perform their jobs if they had to take the time to justify each and every decision that's made. Bottom line, the only people that are entitled to evidence leading to a person getting banned, is the banned player himself. Therefore, Demand#1 is unreasonable and outside your right to possess.
This whole list of demands is problematic. Where does it end? Until the Devs are satisfied? Until the whole Community is satisfied? I understand your complaint, trust me, but you are becoming just as 'guilty' as the Admins here, when you act outside your authority and make demands that you are not entitled to.
The same goes with the demand for the thread to not be moderated. The Moderators need to do their job, if it is called for. The entire Server and forum needs structure to function appropriately.
Aside from this list of demands, and resulting strike, there are some other issues that need to be discussed. For one, any thought of replacing this staff with another "more competent" one, needs to be dismissed. I've seen enough members put on the Green jacket to know that different people will not change the dynamic of the how the server operates. I could go in length about how each new Green starts with energy and ideas to make the server better, gets pummeled by the Community a few times and then is fearful, then stops presenting ideas, then stops caring and then quits. It's happened to me before. It happens to everyone to some degree. New players will only inject even more inexperience into the Staff. We need to keep as many experienced staff members for the sake of the server.
What about this specific situation? How can the Community satisfy their sense of justice and get the Admins to take another look at things? Well, Tunicle has already stated that the Admins are reexamining the matter. I would strongly advise you to give them time. I would be willing to bet that the evidence pool that brought them to this decision is probably pretty scant. There is also human pride to consider. It will take them time to swallow it. This set of demands would piss me off and make me want to unplug the server. I suggest you give the Admins a week to come forward with a course of action they deem wise. If you are unhappy with their decision, then leave. No demands, no uprising, no strike. Because, in the long run, even if you win and the Admins capitulate, you have ultimately rung the death bell for this server.
Way to be melodramatic, Garrett. Your scaremongering isn't helping matters - the server went for years without any of the current administrators on side, and I'm confident that would have the capacity to function without any of them in the future. Your suggestion would, from where I'm sitting, expect me to tolerate a staff that has repeatedly shown its lack of interest in working alongside the community - all for the simple reason that they have "experience". Forgive my ignorance, but I don't think acting as an administrator for this mod requires degree-level competency or training. The way you say it, you're outright stating that a staff with an insufficient wealth of experience would simply crumble without someone to show them the ropes. While I don't expect that a team of new people could simply walk in and pick everything up in a few hours, I do not think it would take an incredible amount of time to pull things back on track.
Ultimately, if I had to choose between returning faction leaders that were pulled away due to this decision in exchange for purging the entire list of greens, I'd take it in a heartbeat. That's not even what I'm asking for, though - it's a lot simpler than that. I don't expect the staff to resign in totality much as I'd love to see it happen, but I do want to see some reforms implemented that allows the staff to be in some manner held accountable for their actions, whether it be a formalised complaints and appeals system or something else. Don't tell me this isn't possible, either - I have seen other communities wherein complaints against staff members are taken seriously, made public, and voted on publically by the moderators, admins, and superadmins that govern the entire community. The old-fashioned idea that you either suck it up or leave should not cut it anymore, and any suggestion that overhauling that kind of system would lead to some sort of ultimate collapse is provably false. The only way your claim could make any sort of sense is if you truly believe Disco is so different to any other community of a similar size that a system like that would uniquely not work here, and I would find that a very outlandish claim to make.
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