Activity Notice: July

[Char Aznable]

This is not a discussion thread @nOmnomnOm . I responded to the Admin's questions, and I am not interested in discussing this with you, or anyone else. At least not on the forums.

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#notmyfrankfurt

[Omi]

I am no fan of the Kusari Exiles or the Kusari Civil War, but I still find it deplorable that this question even got asked:

{343} - Kusari Exiles ... Is there still the ZOI problem? If yes could you precisely detail it.

Just how out of touch do you have to be to leave an official faction's requested ZoI changes unimplemented for over eight months? Operation Kamikaze took place just after the New Year, and it is now the 9th August. It's not as if you || weren't || being || consistently || reminded about it, either.

I am no expert on how the staff and dev teams coordinate (although I could make a fair guess), but this seems like the sort of change that could be done in half an hour or less. Even with all the other problems @Char Aznable listed aside, this would have been enough to put any faction into the dirt with no hope of recovery.

This may not be the right time or place to ask this, but that doesn't stop me from being curious about it: what does the dev team intend to do now? The pooch has been well and truly screwed with the Kusari Civil War, so I hope you don't intend on restarting development after half a year of leaving the place a ghost town.

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[Petitioner]

This may not be the right time or place to ask this, but that doesn't stop me from being curious about it: what does the dev team intend to do now? The pooch has been well and truly screwed with the Kusari Civil War, so I hope you don't intend on restarting development after half a year of leaving the place a ghost town.

The problems with the Exiles ID could have been remedied much quicker, ironically enough, if IDs were dev territory rather than admin territory, and someone on the dev team had the power to update them.

I still have no idea why faction ZoI is considered admin jurisdiction rather than dev jurisdiction, unless it's some weird sentimental holdover from the days when all ZoIs were defined as "wherever your faction has NPCs plus one system away from that, unless you have a really good reason to be outside of it, in which case do whatever", which was a system that, understandably, gave the admin team a lot of leeway in punishing people for "violating their ZoI".

It's an especially illogical thing given that ships have to be balanced around what they're expected to encounter within their respective factions's zones, and admins are not involved in ship balancing -- though admittedly, times when this would become an issue are edge cases. I could go on about this particular issue for pages.

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[Alley]

I still have no idea why faction ZoI is considered admin jurisdiction rather than dev jurisdiction, unless it's some weird sentimental holdover from the days when all ZoIs were defined as "wherever your faction has NPCs plus one system away from that, unless you have a really good reason to be outside of it, in which case do whatever", which was a system that, understandably, gave the admin team a lot of leeway in punishing people for "violating their ZoI".

It's an especially illogical thing given that ships have to be balanced around what they're expected to encounter within their respective factions's zones, and admins are not involved in ship balancing -- though admittedly, times when this would become an issue are edge cases. I could go on about this particular issue for pages.

I'm more worried there's still that mindset of "admin thing" and "dev thing" when it comes to specifics of this kind.
You have that Admin/Dev Correspondency Chat on Skype, because apparently that's the extent team members are willing to go to engage in a conversation. When was the last relevant message in there? June 18th 2016. So until some decide to pull their fingers out of their marduks, I can see these kind of statements continue to keep coming.

IDs were moved server-side to benefit from the dynamic infocards system from Cannon. It's going to take an admin barely five minutes to update an infocard and that can be according to new ZOI specifications provided by a developer. The thing is, for that to happen, maybe the devs need to start communicating instead of blaming the admins on the forums or skype whenever they have an issue because none of them could be bothered to use the correspondency chat.

I'd also like to remind you there are two admins on the dev team right now, so the zoi update you are talking about could have been easily deployed.

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Alley was right.

[Char Aznable]

The issue is though: The time that I have been on the devteam Alley, I asked for the change at least three times in the Skype chat, plus my constant asking in the FSRs, which they claim to be "helpful for evaluating the status of factions". The correspondency was used, and if the team continues to ignore it for multiple months, it in fact is and Admin fault.

That's not saying that the Admins are the only ones at fault here. If you look over my first post, the devteam did some dumb stuff as well, but the particular case you are arguing here was the fault of the greens. Period.

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#notmyfrankfurt

[DiscoveryGC Admins]

Whilst admin bashing is good fun, did it occur that the question was asked in the OP because the actual ZOI request could not be found in the player or faction request threads? A simple "I posted it via player request on March 15th" or similar may have help us locate it.

[Char Aznable]

Are you kidding me? A player request should be necessary? Does common sense even exist in your vocabulary? I requested the ZOI changes in every faction status report since January. A ZOI change that was planned and, according to the responsible storyline devs at the time, was approved as well. A change that you knew about, since it is necessary for the storyline development to continue. You could have just read the FSR, asked me on skype: "Hey, what's this change you keep asking about?". But no, a Player request for something that was approved of by the admin and dev team is necessary.

You're accusing me of Admin bashing here, but the real Admin bashing is done by yourself.

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#notmyfrankfurt

[Alley]

The issue is though: The time that I have been on the devteam Alley, I asked for the change at least three times in the Skype chat, plus my constant asking in the FSRs, which they claim to be "helpful for evaluating the status of factions". The correspondency was used, and if the team continues to ignore it for multiple months, it in fact is and Admin fault.

That's not saying that the Admins are the only ones at fault here. If you look over my first post, the devteam did some dumb stuff as well, but the particular case you are arguing here was the fault of the greens. Period.

I wasn't specifically referring to the Exile ZOI problem. This blaming has been happening every once in a while because someone didn't do his part of it at some point (and that goes for both devs and admins).

In the case of the Exile ZOI update while it was pointed out in the 343 FSRs there hasn't been any actual ID adjustement request from the dev team to the admin team at all. So while I agree there's been a failure on the admin side for not acting for several months over that point coming up over and over in your FSR, there's still the issue that no developer (read those that were in charge of admin/dev communication, not all devs) haven't submitted an actual request to the admins to apply any change to Exile related IDs. It's even more worrying that it wasn't brought to the attention of King Boo (whom was the only devmin at the time) more than that internally on the yellow side.

There's an incredible lot going on for the admins at all time and without proper, structured requests things will be missing. Most admins don't have the ability to keep up (or are even informed) of what the dev team do and as long as there isn't any proper patch deployment procedure problems of this kind will continue to arise.

To put it in perspective, this is just like being contracted to develop a new website module and when you have finished developing it you hand over the module to the client but don't provide any deployment procedure or sql script. It's the same thing here. The devs need to provide a proper deployment document to discovery server operators (not just 24/7) when they roll out a major release.

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Alley was right.

[Thyrzul]

What is the point of the correspondency chat or the FSRs then if either a player or a faction request has to be submitted for something to happen anyways? I mean sure, you can discard complaints with "they bash admins to have fun" bullcrap, or you can consider them and change what needs to be changed. (EDIT: I've been ninjad with a bit more info making admin/dev relations and communications look a lot more confusing now. What's so difficult in having talks?)

So far regarding the Exile ID ZoI change the posts of this thread highlighted two important details, one is that such an ID change can be done in the matter of a few minutes, the other is that it has not been done for seven or eight months. What do you think doing the math would result in what exactly?

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[Petitioner]

The Exile ID change, as of earlier today, still hasn't gone through. So, now that the admin team is publicly, indisputably very much aware of it, why not take a few minutes and do it now?

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