Remove POB regulation double standards from rules

[nOmnomnOm]

Step one: lawfuls demand access to base or the base gets shot down.
Step two: owner will log in to open his smuggling store up when he thinks no one will see
Step three: lawful will log in into the base and see it.
Step four: massive fine or not even that. If player is hated then for sure the base is dead.

You see a double standard here? You look like pirates when you only like to blow up bases and use that as threats against a base owner.

I wana see inrl a cop finding marijuana in an apartment building and then bringing the demolition team to blow up the whole building.

NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

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[Laura C.]

I skimmed through and saw Laura say she/he wants to look into a base and see illegal stuff inside to fine etc.

Hahahahaa good joke. We all know how that had went before. It is a GOOD thing that lawfuls cannot attack or fine a base based on what they see inside. It is a code issue and should stay protected. It is better for the base owner too instead of having to log in to open shop every time. It helps make a damn smuggling station.

But nooooo . You all just want to get ride of stations that provide you with smugglers for you to catch.

You realize that this thread is not about this rule about hidden base stuff AND IT DOES NOT CALL FOR ITS REMOVAL, right?

1) 500 mills or your base dies per month
Who even has that type of money. Base owners are not all rich, you jerks.

You like exaggerating it seems. No one asks for such amount of money. Fun facts: Kusari has fee free zones if I remember correctly and Rheinland ask less than Hessians (100 million one time payment vs 50 million month payment).

2) paying a lawful faction because it says in the laws and when a base gets attacked you guys just sit on your butt and pick your nose.

So you like throwing mud around it seems. Sure, we sit and enjoy watching the base burn. You obviously have no idea what happens in such situations, but sure. Let´s slander, why not.

house military and police control their HOUSE. Boarderworld are large and uncontrollable. Otherwise you would have claimed it. But no. It is BOARDERWORLD.

Why is there such an attitude that you wish to control and fine everything even more than what you have? Leave it.

I dont see and double standards here. I see it as an argument so that you lawfuls can go back to your mission to abuse and destroy bases while taking fines and payment which you ROB from base owners since you dont even try to protect the station after.

Mind you elaborate how this "claiming" should look like? Because Rheinland has trade lanes, jumpgates and stations in Omega-7, had there battleship and now there is police station. Obviously this is not enough to claim this space, so I wonder how proper claiming looks like.

Also, seems you are another person which did not even read the OP properly. Option 2 offers compromise. But becase you hate all lawfuls mainly for what they did to you in Liberty, you go full hostile. Very constructive.

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[Laura C.]

Step one: lawfuls demand access to base or the base gets shot down.
Step two: owner will log in to open his smuggling store up when he thinks no one will see
Step three: lawful will log in into the base and see it.
Step four: massive fine or not even that. If player is hated then for sure the base is dead.

You see a double standard here? You look like pirates when you only like to blow up bases and use that as threats against a base owner.

I wana see inrl a cop finding marijuana in an apartment building and then bringing the demolition team to blow up the whole building.

NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

You obviously don´t understand what rule is this thread about. Once again, IT IS NOT ABOUT RULE THAT MAKES CONTRABAND ON BASES INVISIBLE FOR LAWFULS.

Is this understandable enough?

Now please stop derailing the thread or I will be forced to call mods.

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[nOmnomnOm]

Furthermore stop twisting everything so it seems that it is not inRP to you because there is one incident that you dont like. Your example of the drugs next to police station is cute but how would police know about it? They wouldn't and that is why you cannot do anything about it inRP.

It is not sugar coating crap. It is removing crap that players showed in their behavior before and we fixed it.
Are you aweknologing any of the positive changes? I dont see how you are. This is in part why I cannot take you guys seriously here. All I see is another reason you want to blow something instead of doing some other sort of rp that would be more suitable. And no im not talking about 500 million or die.

Haha people complain about 10 mill or die from pirates. 500 million or die is ok? Yeah because rp consequences right? Ill just fly a pirate again and demand 20 million because why not. RP consequences, you know? Pirates are mot nice. A lawful can fine 50 million for contraband or even insulting them or running away. Pirates can only fine 2 mills? Lol. Now THAT is a double standard that you can see closer to what YOU UNDERSTAND.

But you are not a base operator, are you. Who are you to say these judgments that are radical and enforce it on us that try to us the PoBs for something productive for the server. All you guys are is a filthy wall we have to climb to over.

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[nOmnomnOm]

Step one: lawfuls demand access to base or the base gets shot down.
Step two: owner will log in to open his smuggling store up when he thinks no one will see
Step three: lawful will log in into the base and see it.
Step four: massive fine or not even that. If player is hated then for sure the base is dead.

You see a double standard here? You look like pirates when you only like to blow up bases and use that as threats against a base owner.

I wana see inrl a cop finding marijuana in an apartment building and then bringing the demolition team to blow up the whole building.

NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

You obviously don´t understand what rule is this thread about. Once again, IT IS NOT ABOUT RULE THAT MAKES CONTRABAND ON BASES INVISIBLE FOR LAWFULS.

Is this understandable enough?

Now please stop derailing the thread or I will be forced to call mods.

you said it yourself

But when it comes to lawfuls, they are significantly restricted. First by rule this thread is about, so they can´t destroy POBs in Outer Regional Space unless it is hostile, regardless if the base is violationg local house laws in any way. Second rule I am reffering too and which applies everywhere, even in house capital system, is that lawfuls can´t see illegal commodities on the bases inRP and make consequencies from it (fining the owner, removing the station etc.).

So you like throwing mud around it seems. Sure, we sit and enjoy watching the base burn. You obviously have no idea what happens in such situations, but sure. Let´s slander, why not.

I have seen it first hand. npnp

You like exaggerating it seems. No one asks for such amount of money. Fun facts: Kusari has fee free zones if I remember correctly and Rheinland ask less than Hessians (100 million one time payment vs 50 million month payment).

You only operate in your examples in your SMALL bubble. You bring the good examples but it seems that bad ones that are not in your favor just fly over your head.

Mind you elaborate how this "claiming" should look like? Because Rheinland has trade lanes, jumpgates and stations in Omega-7, had there battleship and now there is police station. Obviously this is not enough to claim this space, so I wonder how proper claiming looks like.

Can you look at Shuttgart or Hamburg and then look at Omega 7 and NOT see the clear difference?
A trade lane and a jump gate with a happy sticker on it that says "property of rheinland" does not equal that the whole system is now owned by rheinland.
A small battleship in the LARGE system does not make it your system either. Especially a system mostly in dense cloud.

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TWISTING:

By the way, please don´t bring the flimsy justification that "houses can´t fully control their borderworlds" which I heard from some when current rules were introduced. First, how it comes that houses can´t control their borderworlds, but unlawfuls can freely have control even heart of capital system (all they need is to log in numbers massive enough) or systems which lies completely on the other side of Sirius? And second, at this moment due to current rules setup, completely nonsene situations may happen. Anyone can for example make a base in Omega-7 next to RFP station, name it "Cardamine Shipping Inc." and then really start selling cardamine. Or construct "Fighters Against Corrupted Stupid Chancellor HG" base next to Stuttgart jumpgate where they will offer money for RM/RFP pilots. Or "Die King Charles Die - Dead Royals Storage" doing the same next to GRN battleship in Provence, to bring example from some other house. In all cases, nothing can be done about it by lawfuls. Again, wrong from both inRP as well as ooRP perspective.

1st of all, bringing players that are unlawful in multiples to go into a system and 'control' it does not mean they CONTROL the system. STOP twisting this in your head as well as ours.
2nd in the case of your RFP station in Omega 7, that is an issue with the admins and you becasue you have a base in that system that is yours. That is something unique that DOES NOT APPLY LITERALLY EVERYWHERE ELSE in other boarderworlds.
Even so, I'd like to know how much significance that base has becasue from the info card it looks like it is only there in RP to monitor IMG base there.

[sindroms]

Hey, guys. If you are starting to do that sort of thing, mind moving the argument to Skype or PMs?

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[Laura C.]

Hey, guys. If you are starting to do that sort of thing, mind moving the argument to Skype or PMs?

I did not start it and I tried to end it. It is not my fault he does not like that majority of people want this rule changed, so he came in to vent his frustration and derail this thread which as he admitted he hates. And I am not even going to comment on personal attacks, slander and insults against law enforcement players in general as well as me personally. It is not my problem he has personal hate towards certain part of the community.

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[Landers]

Yes, double standards and somewhat not cool.

However, PoBs need protection against Houses that have just extended their influence too far into what is meant to be "not really controlled" space. You named the Omega connection that you would like to police properly, and that is not what it is meant to be. But we likely disagree there, and likely all House players would love the Borderworlds to just be "their space". The rule changes however support my version.

Talking about double standards, we remember.

Anyway, that Houses can't enforce PoB regulations in their immediate vicinity, is completely stupid, regardless which House are we talking about.

[Zayne Carrick]

The problem with "non-hostile POBs" is that unlawfuls have much more hostile pobs compared to lawfuls. So disbalance will remain almost as it is.

[Jack_Henderson]

Hey Laura.

Hm, I get your point with Option 2, however I see the problem of putting it into a rule that can be written in a way that makes it compact enough. I mean, how do you define these zones?

In my opinion, this takes us right back where Disco somewhat is weird. Example NY shows it: Infocards say that large parts of NY are not controllable and no one goes into the southern Badlands. That's Disco's main system. And it is not controlled at all.

I totally agree with you that there cannot be a Sair-IFF base in the Orbit of New Berlin or in visible range of any lawful base. And, on second thought, there should be an option to kill it IF it ever was built. I mean, however: has this ever happened? In all the time of POB building, I cannot remember a single case - but correct me if I am wrong there.

Going back to the NY-Badlands example, in my opinion the nebulas in southern o7 (far enough away from DHC base) classify as "definitely not under control". It's a equally rough or even rougher than NY badlands in my imagination (which also might differ from yours, though).

So, should a POB be able to be built there in O7 (far away from lanes, far from DHC southern base, inside nebula) without taxation and laws enforced onto it by Houses?
I think: Defintely.
I would see it like the Rogue Destroyer in NY, or other hidden unlawful NPC bases in core systems.

I also do not see what your problem with "grey bases" is.
What is the problem about an irp "smuggler base"?
We have money laundering shops, gang controlled parts of the economy right in front of our noses in RL, every day.
Why would it be different in Disco?

A POB that resells e.g. Sair artifacts should work in Disco. It's a pretty cool thing and could give POBs another reason to exist outside the (unwanted) role of blocking/area denial bases or boring ore storage.

If people accepted that access to the POB does not mean they can see the shop's list fully, we could change the rules there. But that's gameplaywise impossible. I mean, the shady trader in the bar would not show his goods to the RFP inspector - but of course in gameplay the whole shop is open to anybody who can dock.

However because players do assume that their chars can see the complete shop, roleplay like "your base sells X! X is contraband! Your base will be attacked if you do not..." rp has happened before. And - in my opinion - a smuggler base is a lot cooler and can provide a lot more incentive to interact than the boring "we build cloaks" base, or the "we sell ore" base.

Look at Junker bases. 40 k from Planet Manhattan. A Junker base that sells Cardamine.
If NPC bases in main systems have the status of "safe", POBs in Borderworlds need to have the same.
No one has docked on the Junker base in NY and fined/threatened the NPC Junkers with dire consequences bc they have illegal goods there.

I am not fully content with the "Keep as is" option, but I think it is the only option that averts more damage.

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