Server Rules Contradiction

[Xoria]

5.3 Attacking characters of level 29 and below is prohibited. Characters under level 30 cannot be attacked by players of any level, except if they have non-Civilian ID onboard, and except cases of self-defense.

6.8 Civilian ID that is given to beginning freelancers allows to attack:

- For players below level 30: players of similar level below level 30, or any players above level 30.
- For players between level 30 and 39: any players of level 30 and above.
- For players of level 40 and higher: using Civilian ID is illegal, no PvP allowed.

Every member of The Lane Hackers has to pass an exam on the server PvP rules before receiving their first promotion. One of our latest recruits brought this to my attention.
Server rule 5.3 and Server rule 6.8 contradict each other.
Rule 5.3 states that "under 30's" cannot be attacked unless they have a non-civilian ID or if its a matter of self-defense. No exception is given for an "under 30" civilian to attack another "under 30" civilian. The lack of that exception in this rule prohibits that.
Rule 6.8 states that "under 30" civilians can attack other "under 30" civilians.
I suppose one could conclude that rule 6.8 contains additional exceptions for rule 5.3, BUT I recall that when PvP was turned on in NY, there was a great deal of administrative upset over "under 30" civilians attacking other "under 30" civilians, and there was also a barn-stormer of a debate about changing these rules to make civilians completely offlimits while they were under level 30, and non-civilian IDs are fair game at any level. I remember this distinctly because I was on the losing side of the debate.
So my best guess is that Rule 6.8 needs an update, or Rule 5.3 needs to point to Rule 6.8 as containing further exceptions.
Since members of The Lane Hackers spend a considerable amount of time in Mk 1 ships as under-level civilians while earning a Dagger and then a Hacker tag and ID, and then more time Hacker Tagged and ID'd in a Dagger, this actually IS a burning issue for us, and we request a Rule clarification.
The big problem is that certain attacks are allowed under Rule 6.8 that are violations of Rule 5.3.
Is this a big issue? Yes, I think it is. The question in the LH PvP exam dealing with this issue is more frequently answered wrong than right (I'd say at least 70-80% get it wrong on the first try), and that must reflect the confusion that these two rules are creating by contradicting each other.
Even if I am reading it wrong and there is no contradiction, nearly every person who joins LH is confused by this issue and can't answer a question about it correctly on the first attempt. Take a look at the LH recruitment thread and I think you'll see the exceptional quality of LH recruits. If such players can't understand this, then the general player base is not understanding it either, and that makes for problems.

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[Spear]

As far as I'm concerned under lvl 30 "Civillian" ID holders should not participate in PVP.

Once a player choses an ID other than Civillian he has made the concious choie to be part of RP and may engage in RP-PVP and be engaged by hid ID's enemies.

Thats how I conduct myself in-game at any rate. Although I tend to just drive off under lvl 30 faction ID holders rather than kill them most of the time.

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=LSF=

[Jinx]

thats how it is. RP wise below lvl30 players are not existant, they are to be ignored, period, no exception whatsoever.

only if they do have a faction ID, they are instantly part of RP. so a lvl1 starflier with a BMM ID is free for all, concerning RP - and pvp. - the rule that below 30 can attack below 30s is older and was possibly not edited. anyway - as it stands, lvl1-29 players with civi ID are no subject of any interaction.

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[Xoria]

Spear and Jinx : fine. That is what I understood the changes to be, but rule 6.8 was not changed to reflect that and there is now a contradiction in the server rules, or at the very least a level of confusion about what is legal and what is not. If there wasn't any confusion, then my recruits wouldn't be getting the exam question about this issue wrong 80% of the time while getting all of the other questions correct.

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[Spear]

Your correct it needs to be amended Xoria, no doubt there are others too such as the Xenos not demanding cargo as their ID states but fits their RP better than a cash demand that they must make if you are to go by the current rules. The rules do need some slight amendments to prevent the "loopholers" abusing them.

Mostly it's a time management issue, when the admins are around they are usually wading through a dozen rule violations that pop up when they are absent. In your position as an angel you could help them by PM'ing any revisions you see, I am sure they would consider your point of view.

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=LSF=

[mwerte]

actually, why ignore players that have the civ ID? A Liberty Defender, level 27ish, Civ ID came and docked on Malta. Now, I can't shoot at him, but I can RP the encounter, if he choses to RP back that's great. If he doesn't, I go on my merry way, knowing that he'll soon tire of the server, or get a capship that I need a couple of bombers to obliterate.

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[sovereign]

I think the rules in general need an overhaul to clarify this kind of thing. Mwerte, if this isn't already in your amends proposal...

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[chovynz]

I'm fine either way:
a) under lvl 30 Civs can not be attacked
b) under lvl 30 civs can be attacked by other under 30 civs

But it does need clarifing either way.
My preference is actually allow under lvl 30's to be attacked by anyone in RP.
That'll teach them to RP pretty quick i think - or one aspect of it anyway..

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[Igiss]

Xoria, it's hard to understand what exactly you are proposing. Maybe just post the version you see fit?

[song]

thats how it is. RP wise below lvl30 players are not existant, they are to be ignored, period, no exception whatsoever.

only if they do have a faction ID, they are instantly part of RP. so a lvl1 starflier with a BMM ID is free for all, concerning RP - and pvp. - the rule that below 30 can attack below 30s is older and was possibly not edited. anyway - as it stands, lvl1-29 players with civi ID are no subject of any interaction.

Ok--to clarify--we CAN attack ANY level player as long as he does NOT have a civ ID?

This is correct? A level 70 can attack a level 10 if his ID is non-civilian?

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