House Military Indies

[beander2]

Anyone who knows me or HGL knows we have no intention of flaunting authority. However, a recent event has raised some questions for me.

While flying the Trafalgar, I recently had an abrupt run-in with an "NC|"-tagged vessel in Colorado. This individual had a Liberty Navy ID, and I believe was in a proper Liberty navy ship. Nothing oorp there.

However, he was pretty (and unnecessarily) rude and attempted to throw his weight around as Liberty Navy. I told an SA vessel about it, who said SA had been having problems with such individuals and referred me to an SA commander. That one in turn told me "NC|" vessels were outside his jurisdiction. I have also been unable to find "NC|" on any unofficial faction list. Hence the following questions:

1. Do independent (non-faction-affiliated), house-military-ID'd vessels have the same authority in their house space as vessels from factions representing the NPC house militaries?

2. Does the ID's specification that the holder is presumed to have joined the house military require them to join the proper faction? Should it, perhaps?

3. How should lawful civilian vessels, such as HGL's, respond to these ships? Do we have to obey their orders?

4. More importantly, if they are abusive, to whom do we appeal? If we do not cooperate, is that tantamount to defying the laws and factions of that house?

While I understand and respect the significance of IDs for RP, it seems rather absurd to me that we would have to obey the orders of such vessels, especially when they are arbitrarily and unnecessarily rude (which I find to be rather oorp for a house authority). Any player could bribe or do missions for a house military, get the ID and ship, and then go out and order everyone around with no faction RP, training, or most importantly, supervision and accountability. I can't see how the rest of us are bound by that.

Finally, THIS IS NOT A FLAME POST. I'm asking for clarification; that's all. I'll certainly abide by the community's understanding.


PS: There is a good general discussion about military ID here, though it does not speak to this exact issue:

Military ID RP

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Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

[Tenacity]

I'm a supporter of 'indie' players, being one myself... but I'll say outright that many of the others I see are just complete idiots.

When I played an indie LSF / liberty gunboat, I did my job like any of the SA or =LSF= would. I patrolled new york and the surrounding liberty systems, I stopped smugglers, I helped traders when they had run-ins with pirates, so on and so forth. Even doing all that I still had problems with the officials, but now I realize that's likely because they deal with so many 'bad' indies on a daily basis.

The problem with a lot of these independent military and police players is that they want to act like they've got authority over everyone else, without doing their 'jobs'. They simply go around and cause trouble in the name of 'justice'.

So to answer your questions:

1. In a certain regard, they do have the same authority. They're still supposed to be RP'ing the part of a house military or police force, and as such they should adhere to some basic rules regarding that... doing the jobs listed above, acting like a member of a house organization would, etc. The problem is they're outside the 'player' faction ranks, so they dont take orders from anyone. If the person/player behind that indie character is respectable and good natured, they'll conduct themselves well even without direct orders. Most of the time that isnt the case though, and they come off like rogue military.

2. As I said, a lot of players - including myself - dont want to join player factions. We play to have fun, not to deal with beaurocratical BS and ranks that you'd have to in an official faction. The indie players should ACT like a member of their faction though.

3. You should, unless they're making unreasonable requests. If they ask you to stop for a scan, do so, if you're a legal trader you have nothing to worry about. If they fire on you without warning or reason, or in any other way try to 'force' authority on you, either inform the official faction that there's a rogue on the loose or hire a bounty hunter to get you some payback.

4. As said in 3, inform the official faction that the player would normally be a part of that the independent has gone rogue.

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[Walker]

Tenacity, This has been dealed with before, Get over it.
EVERY Post is just about how SA And LSF are fascist to Indies... Do something different for a change.

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Tiberius Walker, putting flames out and being awesome since Apr 13 2008 ™
[8/17/2008 5:56:46 PM] Aaron (Boss/Jurgen) says: Can't bring myself to say it... Looks like you get the LABC, I've seen what you can do in one
Walker (Albert Wint): I can has win? --- Epyon the Bored: You can haz win. --- [1:18:00 PM] Chris (Niezck) says: I love you <3
[5:55:53 PM] Raisu says: Walker pwned both Battleships(LNS-Texas LNS-Arizona) - [5:55:57 PM] Raisu says: in a cruiser
Tiberius Walker, spreading mayhem, destruction, and Spamming Flood since Oct 22 2008 ™
[9:08:25 AM] Gurjiv (Frozen) says: I hope someone gives you AIDs.
[7:15:17 PM] Dylan (Ximen) says: Walker... you have no idea how much fail you bring into this world...
[8:05:08 AM] Ross (SevereTrinity) says: Screw you for making me install FL again
[10:51IE AM] Epyon the Bored says: My god if I ever meet you I am going to strangle you.
Tiberius Walker, being better then you since April 30, 2009 ™
We will remember - We do not Forget - We do not Forgive

[kingvaillant]

woho calm down on both sides please.

I know one of the member of those NC| , he told me that he was preparing something, dunno what, But I know his RP capabilities which are extremely good.

Lets see if he will post here

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Director of the Liberty Security Force: Fidelity, Bravery and Integrity

The Amundsen Zone-21 Restrictions

[Tenacity]

Tenacity, This has been dealed with before, Get over it.
EVERY Post is just about how SA And LSF are fascist to Indies... Do something different for a change.

Read my post a little more carefully, i'm not bashing you guys.

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[beander2]

Walker, with all due respect, I don't know that you read Tenacity's post very carefully.

Edit: Sorry, Tenactiy - our posts came in for a landing at the same time, I think.

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Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

[Titan]

About the NC tagged liberty navy Trev, this is part of some major RP that is going to happen in Liberty. I'm afraid we can't say more, they aren't part of the SA, they're RPing as Northeners and as such we have no direct authority over them, they do have to obey the orders of the high command though, whether its SA or northern one. But anyway to answer your question, anyone having a navy ID is navy in RP and you have to listen to their orders. Whether it is an indie or SA it does not matter in this case. They're all the same Navy. If they abuse their power you report them either to me or other high command officers and we'll deal with them.

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[beander2]

About the NC tagged liberty navy Trev, this is part of some major RP that is going to happen in Liberty. I'm afraid we can't say more, they aren't part of the SA, they're RPing as Northeners and as such we have no direct authority over them, they do have to obey the orders of the high command though, whether its SA or northern one. But anyway to answer your question, anyone having a navy ID is navy in RP and you have to listen to their orders. Whether it is an indie or SA it does not matter in this case. They're all the same Navy. If they abuse their power you report them either to me or other high command officers and we'll deal with them.

Titan, I just PM'd you a response to this. I won't say anything else about that here.

I have no problem with RP plans - excellent. That potentially explains the tag, but it doesn't explain the behavior, unless that, too, is part of the RP event. If so, perhaps some sort of vague hint warning the rest of us would have been helpful, at least to prevent cranky threads like mine. :)

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Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

[RmJ]

1.)It's kind of hard to have indie Navy and police. Each pilot would act by themselves and make it that they are the rulers of the system. With out any checks and balances the indie Navy/Police are lawful pirates. Like yesterday an Indie navy ordered me to pay 1 million credits because I made a donation to a hacker pilot. (Which was a forced donation) After I paid him he proceeded to shoot at my ship until it was almost destroyed.
I couldnt appeal to anyone cuz he was NAVY. SO I am for indie traders but not indie Navy/Police. In Sirus there must governed Navy and Police. SA, thou useless as protectors, is a perfect solution to checks and balances. LSF, LNS, and LPI are weak in there control because there not unified. KNF works because there always in teams, RM oh do I hate them.but regardless they work together and it works. BP and BMM if I have that right I am unsure how they operate I dont normally fly through there.

2.) ID must require faction joining. If youre generic like pirate, smuggler, freelancer, trader no you dont have to join. But if you choice an ID of power to govern others your job is to use it within the factions rules.

3.) Ahget a screen shot and send it to ZICIm not advertizing its the truth if you want to protect your profits you follow there orders if you dont have back up you left with no choice. But theres no one to appeal to. You and I both have dealt with the decision to drop it, run, or call on bounties to sneak up on the prick and kill him.And I found it to be really hard to have House factions to help.

4.) Hmm I might be redundant but House factions have a job that is protect civilians and to protect each other. If we cant go to them then there is no one else that would help. (ZIC would but.no seems to think its necessary)


edit: SO he's posesing as LNS?

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[RmJ]

Wait other people are in on that? wow word travels fast.

Since i wasted this space i might as well put something use full.

I encountered a Battleship that was RM but he had a IMG tag would that follow in the same argument as what your question was Mr. Buchannan?

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