Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID?

[Eppy]

Oh, no. You see, the 101st is forcing itself as the de facto government on the Outcasts once more. It used to be, way back in the heady days of the 4.82 betas and before that the 101st (then the GoR) was the only Outcast faction here, and they were so well-respected that they were simply given precedence by everybody. Then we had political machinations while the server was being flooded by pvp whores, and nobody was there to teach them exactly who has precedence in what space. So, we're back and taking charge again. This is us declaring a combination of refusal to comply and nonexistant Roleplay bad Roleplay and doing something about it. If you really want to bug somebody go buy yourself a Rheinland Battleship and watch what happens. You'll be eaten alive.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Culebra]

Oh I agree with you Akumabito but the people in power don't.

[Varyag]

Interesting point. If they are KOS and rejected by the Outcast, where do they go? Is anyone out there RPing this? Sounds like good fun. I don't think it would be so much civil war to kill outcast ided and taged outcast by outcasts, it would be oorp and should be reported.

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"I looked up and all I saw was green death"

[Akumabito]

Oh, no. You see, the 101st is forcing itself as the de facto government on the Outcasts once more.

And that is called civil war if others don't agree with your attempted coup and violence results.

You made my point for me.

Again, from an rp perspective:

Perfectly legally ID'd and tagged outcasts are under threat of attack by the 101st if they don't give up their legally owned cap ships, obviously RP wise that can only be a civil war.

These cap ship captains and their crews are being driven out of outcast space from this persecution.

The natural result is outcast cap ships that are now outside of outcast influence as these ex outcast make their homes elsewhere. Probably not with the hated corsairs, but certainly within other factions.

Wheres the oorp in those assumptions?

[Eppy]

And that is called civil war if others don't agree with your attempted coup and violence results.

Coup? There was no coup. The 101st have been the dominant force in that area for over two years. We own the Guard system, therefore we are the law and have ultimate ZoI, as we have had since well before your join date. We also control the only facility in Outcast space capable of producing capital ships, so there's your problem. So, this is not a 'coup', this is a crackdown. Big difference. There was no revolution, no change of political ideals, there was simply an improvement in service. And anybody trying to 'sell' an Outcast capital ship is going to have a little problem...no matter what you do, the ship cannot be transferred from players, it has to be bought fresh from Malta or Corsica, which is out of roleplay. Need I say more?

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[sovereign]

And that is called civil war if others don't agree with your attempted coup and violence results.

You made my point for me.

Again, from an rp perspective:

Perfectly legally ID'd and tagged outcasts are under threat of attack by the 101st if they don't give up their legally owned cap ships, obviously RP wise that can only be a civil war.

These cap ship captains and their crews are being driven out of outcast space from this persecution.

The natural result is outcast cap ships that are now outside of outcast influence as these ex outcast make their homes elsewhere. Probably not with the hated corsairs, but certainly within other factions.

Wheres the oorp in those assumptions?

Seems you were looking for a fight rather than actually reading it. If the person playing the ship RPs as the captain of that ship, they are fine. If they go "wut lol" then they are deemed insane and the ship is re-possessed to be given to another person, or destroyed. Technically, this has the ability to hit people who are not in blatant violation of server rules, yes, but it only hits the kind of people nobody wants here.

Please, re-read it. It doesn't have to be a civil war.

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[Akumabito]

So, this is not a 'coup', this is a crackdown. Big difference.

No difference whatsoever. The 101st isn't the sole outcast body, it is now seeking to control every outcast, even those previously unaligned with the 101st. If some become rebels to that idea (which some have) that's civil war, plain and simple.

You have created a civil war, and a set of rebles that are taking the ships (RP wise) outside of outcast ZoI in search of a new home.

I'm still waiting for you to point out how it is oorp for someone who is an outcast cap ship captain, who now finds himself on the outs because of persecution by the 101st, from taking his ship elsewhere to find a new home.

[Jinx]

well, in a situation like that - there are two things that contradict each other. - on the one hand, akumabito, you are perfectly right to say that it "can" mean civil war. on the other hand - well, i get to that later...

when we assume that having an outcast ID - along with an outcast tag - and an outcast ship / equipment makes you .... an outcast. - then, by the rules, you have EVERY right to fly ANY outcast ship ( except the ones sold on guard stations owned by guard factions - however... this is a grey area, which could, if taken very seriously - be brought before igiss to decide - cause, there "should" basicly not be any player locking out equipment/ships from other players per se )

now, when you are indeed flying a ship that was purchased in a regular outcast system ( even adjacent systems might be considered direct ZoI of a guard, but they are not under direct control by the guard faction - indeed they are public to the last pixel ) and you are flying outcast colours, - being attacked by a fellow outcast could be understood as a breach of the server rules. ( or in the harshest case even harrassment )

now, we don t play on a server that is called "Discovery 24/7 rules" but we play on a server that is called "Discovery 27/7 RP" - and so, there is now the question, ... what is more important, - the roleplay - or the server rules. it is actually balanced. sometimes its the rules that must dominate a decission, sometimes its the roleplay that overwrite the rules.

what it is in that case, i wouldn t know - thats the business of those that are affected by it. but as it stands - your position is indeed backed up by the server rules, - however, the official factions position is backed up by their roleplay. - both sides are logical and plausible. - by choosing to be an outcast, even independent, you try to fit into the community of outcasts as whatever your role suggests.
if your role suggests to be a devoted outcast captain that worked his way up to command a destroyer for example, i don t think there is a problem flying one. - as that would be a solid, if not boring, but still plausible story - but of course that means, you are an outcast through and through. ( in that case - merits can be earned ingame by actually playing, but can aswell be earned by writing them down as a character history, whatever you like more )

so, i believe any outcast that roleplays as a believable outcast with a solid background - should/would not be rejected to fly the common outcast ships, not even a battleship. - now the dreadnaught is an exception as it is sold in a restricted system. - as i said before, there are hardly any rules that say that you can or cannot do about ships being sold there. - i think the outcasts are very unique there. - every other faction sells all their ships in public systems. - RP wise, such a ship could really be "awarded" - and even if i am not a supporter of players ruling over other players i believe that it can be done here ( since there is infact a ship of the same class that is public and cause i believe that the factions do handle it fair - allthough i wouldn t know - its just guesswork )

So that makes the outcast dreadnaught indeed "limited" ( and only time can tell if its an abuse of power or if its a good and healthy measure )

about the civil war thingy. - as i said before, there is room for such a thing, - as much as there is room for an outcast to fly a bretonian battleship or a zoner to fly a liberty dreadnaught or a corsair to fly a ..... outcast dreadnaught? ( allright, there are limits ) - but such a thing cannot just be "you attack me, now i can set you kos and have a go" - thats not the way to go.

the warship limitation was brought up in a RP way, and if there should be a civil war, it should be done in RP aswell. there is no reason not to have one, but it must be RPed, not just PvPed.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Akumabito]

Seems you were looking for a fight rather than actually reading it.

Excuse me, have you not paid attention or read the register thread?

If the person playing the ship RPs as the captain of that ship, they are fine.

Wrong. If they RP and meet the approval of the 101st they are fine, however if they choose to not have their rp approved by the 101st they are in a civil war, no matter how wll they RP.

All that is required rules wise is an outcast ID and tag. That is RPing an outcast and that makes owning a outcast cap ship perfectly legal.

By attacking perfectly legal outcasts the 101st has created a civil war.

[Eppy]

Because he can't. Here's the dirty little trick, and I'm rather sad you haven't gotten this yet.

WHERE are the ships produced? Corsica.
WHO controls Corsica? The 101st.
WHO controls what comes out of Corsica? The 101st.
WHAT would the 101st do to ensure that it keeps its seat as the reigning Outcast faction? I don't know, some kind of computer override or self-destruct or slave circuit or any one of thousands of little doohickeys that make sure an 800-million-credit piece of equipment stays in the right hands. The list is extremely long.
So, WHO has the say-so? The 101st.

Obviously a computer override is not capable within the limits of the game engine, but in-RP there is no such thing as a displaced Outcast with anything as big as a Destroyer. Displaced Outcast? Sure! In a capital ship? No. Besides, no matter how you construe it, it's still a violation of the server rules, and a sanctionable offense. You have a problem with that, take it up with Igiss. The 101st is doing its job.

Oh, and you're correct, the 101st isn't the sole Outcast body. So? We still have the final word, because we have the organized force and swarms of bombers capable of turning anything that comes our way into slag. Fin.

EDIT:

so, i believe any outcast that roleplays as a believable outcast with a solid background - should/would not be rejected to fly the common outcast ships, not even a battleship.

That reminds me of my end-all argument. This topic has generated a massive flamewar in the past and created boundless friction. And has the 101st been shot down or warned off by an Administrator? No. This has been one of the hottest topics on the forums for the last week, and not a peep. I'm not expecting one, either.

By attacking perfectly legal outcasts the 101st has created a civil war.

Incorrect. By attacking an independent Outcast the 101st has created an...outcast.:lol:

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.