Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3

[sindroms]

Read the rules.

You cannot ''attack'' (not destroy) a transport without making a demand. Just having a guy shooting a transport's shield to make it a PVP situation will make the attacker's equipment fall off, probably in Bastille. PVP will result if the trader declines the demand. Demands must be kept reasonable - there is no way the player can bait them into PVP with unreasonable demands and if they try to, their ship will be deleted by us.

Where exactly is the issue here.

The issue is this:

You removed the only win condition for a transport.

Just look at what trader-pirate interaction looks like:

Pirate catches transport...

a) Transport pays. Pirate wins. Transport loses.
b) Transport dies. Pirate wins. Transport loses.
c) Transport makes it to base =>Transport loses. Pirate wins.

In the past, 1 out of 3 outcomes was your "win condition".
You made it to base under fire, you were not dead.

Now?
I mean, literally every encounter will end in you losing.

The logical consequence:

=> traders will avoid any interaction.
=> More metagaming. '
=> More player list use.
=> More off-plane flying.
=> And less interaction.

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The "always dead for 2h even when killers logged off" has the same consequence. Punishment is harder for the loser. Therefore those who cna expect to lose will avoid the situation. => less interaction.

Jack, you specifically made a tutorial regarding how to watch the player list and avoid pirates. Perhaps it is time to bump it.

[TheShooter36]

This rule change will draw away weaker/lesser playered factions from pvp more

Before that change people thought "hey its not that bad, we can try our chance agains gank force and log when they logged off."

Now its "OH NO A GANK RUN RUUUUUUUN"

Its bad for overall health and interaction quality of disco. Now a new age born. Age if more QQ, more drama, more bullcrappery, crap encounters, gankers ruling sirius and others watching in their burnt ships!

You will have certain players/factions intentionally logging large forces to deny the game to weaker ones completely. In the end playerbase will diminish even more.

And @Jack_Henderson explained transport situation well. Its only loss for transport now.

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[Enkidu]

Actually bother to do RP with local lawfuls and freelancers and win. Since you fly in Kusari and Rheinland, perfect chance to help KSP and RFP to gain activity.

Good joke.
30 players.
If you do not bring your own escort, there is none.
If you are not well-connected, there is none.

And: It also leads to no interaction.
Escort sees pirates.
Transports avoid interaction.

=> less action. Even with escorts.

Because now, not even a strong convoy would fight a pirate. Because 1 or 2 or even more (he could just down everybody's shields once and screen it) would always end pvp dead and would not be able to continue in the cooperative action. Some people actually like playing as a team.

Pirates are equally boned. Traders can just trade elsewhere. All Rheinland piracy happens in Frankfurt practically. If Unioners die in Frankfurt - no more optimal piracy spot. It's hard enough to find traders anyway.

[Jack_Henderson]

Jack, you specifically made a tutorial regarding how to watch the player list and avoid pirates. Perhaps it is time to bump it.

How is this relevant to this discussion?
Are you trying to troll me?

You could however answer the points that people like Karst, Haste, and many other senior players who have an idea how player interaction looks in this game brought up in this thread.

And if you really have a problem with my thread, PM me on Skype and we can discuss it there.

[MutantWizard]

I see a lot of wishful thinking here. For a trader time is money. Sitting around hoping against all hope to find an escort is a waste of money. Will not happen! If my only other choice is to have to pay whatever the pirate demands or end up pvp dead I will simply log of the character and go fly another one on a different route. I accepted encounter risks before as I had a choice and a chance of survival. If I loose the choice and a chance of survival U will never even get my trader in the same system where there is a suspicious character lingering.

It will get awful boring pirating empty space and that's where the issue is!

[Emperor Tekagi]

This rule change will draw away weaker/lesser playered factions from pvp more

Before that change people thought "hey its not that bad, we can try our chance agains gank force and log when they logged off."

Now its "OH NO A GANK RUN RUUUUUUUN"

Its bad for overall health and interaction quality of disco. Now a new age born. Age if more QQ, more drama, more bullcrappery, crap encounters, gankers ruling sirius and others watching in their burnt ships!

You will have certain players/factions intentionally logging large forces to deny the game to weaker ones completely. In the end playerbase will diminish even more.

What a nice explanation of the soon happening things. I am already now amused about some special others commenting on your post, they should know what amuses me already.

Anyway, I see the issue there too. Smaller, PvP-weaker factions will be driven away from any pew interaction more as they are getting dismotivated when they, example here: You have a joint operation of some factions A in one system for RPs, recon, whatnot -> Suddenly faction B+(their allies) appears to pew the faction group A. All fine, everyone is happy they can pew, then oh no we cannot log back afterwards even when nobody of the enemies is still in the system but new rules forbid it.

I would rather see this "Are all enemies gone?" be handled better, which means the PLAYERS have to act in a better way and PM someone who overlooked that not all attacking forces logged off instead of having such rule changes.

PMs! Not reports about it. This, just THIS, is the wrong thing with it. People immediatly going to sanctionlancer instead of just pming them when they still see a player who was just defeated still in system after 5 mins.

EDIT: That Admins have to adjust rules to completly avoid this (which will not work and just cause more issues and sanctions) is sad and just shows once more what is going wrong here. The community goes wrong.

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Me watching the daily drama turn into yet another Disco-doomsday discussion:

[nOmnomnOm]

Or the transport can fight back because they have the new EMP flak guns???

I dont see what the issue is and im happy that pirate transports wont be using the old rules to re-engage.

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[Jack_Henderson]

I dont see what the issue is and im happy that pirate transports wont be using the old rules to re-engage.

They could not abuse the "transports are not dead when docking" because the protection was only for "ships that really trade", in order to explicitly exclude the pvp-transports that could dock in combat, undock with full bats/bots, go again.

[Toris (Old Account)]

The fact some traders stay silent is a fact, regardless of the rules. Should we finally start sanctioning for silent trading - the arguments would never take place.

I've learnt one thing.

No matter how many rules we introduce or remove, no matter how many times we'll try to balance things - there WILL BE someone abusing anything for the sake of abusing it. Remember why Pirate ID got nerfed? Because someone used it as cheap pseudo-terrorist ID. If someone REALLY wants to abuse something - he or she will do that.

But what annoys me to the bone is the fact that there are players stupid enough who pirate empty ships for enormous amounts of money and it creates hate between pirates and traders. You want silent traders? Because this is how you create damn silent powertraders, logging in the late/early hours just to avoid types like you! Roleplaying a pirate is still doing a tough guy - but, especially with low server population, overdoing what is allowed and what is not is just wrong on so many levels it hurts.

Why you abuse stuff even? The majority of the group you represent suffer heavy restrictions bound with every single abuse that comes out as a repeated trend.

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This little bird went to sleep forever. So long.
Thank you for everything.

[Croft]

@Toris it reminds me of that old native american proverb, slightly edited for Disco by your truly.

Only when the last miner is felled,
The last transport falls silent,
Will pirates then learn,
That the navy cannot be taxed.

Perhaps the rule could be amended to add a line such as "only applies to Transports who dock in the system the demand was issued." That way a trader can run and still be considered alive by the rules.

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Jimmy The Rat | Croft's Feedback | The Rat Pack