Event: The Spyglass Game (Concluded)

[GrnRaptor]

Let's see, I was going to give some feedback, if I recall.

So yeah, it's pretty clear that the unlawfuls won this event and that it wasn't even close. Let's break down why that was.

1) Distance
Okay, so I was off on my last post, it was a two system transit. Still not the longest of hauls, though given the nature of the transports they'd probably use the backway the whole time, so a bit longer than average. Still, if I remember correctly the BAF Titan was a five system haul, so quite a bit further overall. Not rating this as a huge contributor, but it really didn't add anything either.

2) Quantities Required
200,000 each of two separate quantities. Seems like a lot, but let's do some math. Let's presume the unlawfuls average a 4k transport, the max given most non-corporate IDs. So 200,000 / 4,000 = 50 loads. Quite a lot for a single person, but reasonable for a group of 2-4. That breaks down to about 12.5 trips for four people over whatever the length of time is given. Not really that much. Harking back to the BAF Titan I recall the numbers being in the range of 500,000 or so just for one commodity, so 25% more than the total for both items required here. I was going to do more in depth comparison against that event, but I couldn't find source thread offhand. Feel free to leave a link if you remember where it is. I would put the cargo requirements as a moderate reason for failure as it could be overcome through sufficient weight of haulers.

3) Time Investment
The disparity in time requirements was huge. What do I mean by that? Well, let's take a look.

Let's pretend a moment that this was a seven day event, and that the amount of time it would take for four people at 4k to run two systems is about ten hours tops. Now let's make a day/hour chart where each 'X' is an hour long, as given in the example below. Each day starts at midnight, too.

Day 1: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 2: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 3: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 4: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 5: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 6: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 7: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Now that's quite a block of time. Let's then mark off the required amount of time to complete the event here in Red.

Day 1: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 2: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 3: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 4: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 5: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 6: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 7: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

A nice random smattering of when people might actually run the cargo and complete it successfully. Doesn't seem that much, now does it? Let's now take a look at how much time the intercepting side would need to commit to do properly interdict any possibility of the haulers being successful in Green.

Day 1: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 2: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 3: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 4: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 5: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 6: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 7: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

That's, uh, quite the disparity, isn't it? We have to recognize that if the intercepting side isn't on 24/7 for the event then for every hour they're not there's an increasing gap into which the haulers can make good their requirement without having to come under fire. The sheer weight of time puts the interceptors at the disadvantage as they have to maintain an unending vigil. As this is a game and not reality that's quite the burden. I rate this as the second most problematic issue with any purely cargo hauling event.

4) No Counter Win Condition
It's pretty easy to win a cargo hauling event. You literally just have to put in the time. The only way for the opposing team to win is stop every possible transit before it reaches the mark, which as we've seen from the time requirements above (and this event) is not something that swings in their favor. There is currently no counter win condition for the opposite side to achieve victory with. If there were, then they would have a separate goal that could win them the event. Say for example they had to make 20 kills and if they do that before the other side completes their hauling then they've successfully disrupted the supply chain. That's an achievable goal right there. Perhaps make it so that if a vessel is destroyed in transit then it's prevented from making more runs until a long time period, say a day, passes to allow for repairs or what not. That would lower the amount of cargo over time that could be brought to bear upon the established goal. Personally I prefer the kill count, as it's a more definite target, but whatever works out that gives the other side the chance to win their own way I'm for. Either way, the lack of a counter win condition is the single biggest issue with events like this.

This applies to any purely cargo hauling event as it stands. Hopefully this feedback will help fix broken events like this in the future.

[Enkidu]

I didn't have time to haul much, but the PvP was very fun. Thanks again.

[kookee2k2]

Let's see, I was going to give some feedback, if I recall.

So yeah, it's pretty clear that the unlawfuls won this event and that it wasn't even close. Let's break down why that was.

1) Distance

Making this whole thing smaller

Okay, so I was off on my last post, it was a two system transit. Still not the longest of hauls, though given the nature of the transports they'd probably use the backway the whole time, so a bit longer than average. Still, if I remember correctly the BAF Titan was a five system haul, so quite a bit further overall. Not rating this as a huge contributor, but it really didn't add anything either.

2) Quantities Required

Making this whole thing smaller

200,000 each of two separate quantities. Seems like a lot, but let's do some math. Let's presume the unlawfuls average a 4k transport, the max given most non-corporate IDs. So 200,000 / 4,000 = 50 loads. Quite a lot for a single person, but reasonable for a group of 2-4. That breaks down to about 12.5 trips for four people over whatever the length of time is given. Not really that much. Harking back to the BAF Titan I recall the numbers being in the range of 500,000 or so just for one commodity, so 25% more than the total for both items required here. I was going to do more in depth comparison against that event, but I couldn't find source thread offhand. Feel free to leave a link if you remember where it is. I would put the cargo requirements as a moderate reason for failure as it could be overcome through sufficient weight of haulers.

3) Time Investment

Making this whole thing smaller

The disparity in time requirements was huge. What do I mean by that? Well, let's take a look.

Let's pretend a moment that this was a seven day event, and that the amount of time it would take for four people at 4k to run two systems is about ten hours tops. Now let's make a day/hour chart where each 'X' is an hour long, as given in the example below. Each day starts at midnight, too.

Day 1: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 2: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 3: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 4: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 5: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 6: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 7: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Now that's quite a block of time. Let's then mark off the required amount of time to complete the event here in Red.

Day 1: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 2: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 3: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 4: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 5: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 6: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 7: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

A nice random smattering of when people might actually run the cargo and complete it successfully. Doesn't seem that much, now does it? Let's now take a look at how much time the intercepting side would need to commit to do properly interdict any possibility of the haulers being successful in Green.

Day 1: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 2: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 3: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 4: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 5: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 6: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Day 7: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

That's, uh, quite the disparity, isn't it? We have to recognize that if the intercepting side isn't on 24/7 for the event then for every hour they're not there's an increasing gap into which the haulers can make good their requirement without having to come under fire. The sheer weight of time puts the interceptors at the disadvantage as they have to maintain an unending vigil. As this is a game and not reality that's quite the burden. I rate this as the second most problematic issue with any purely cargo hauling event.

4) No Counter Win Condition

Making this whole thing smaller

It's pretty easy to win a cargo hauling event. You literally just have to put in the time. The only way for the opposing team to win is stop every possible transit before it reaches the mark, which as we've seen from the time requirements above (and this event) is not something that swings in their favor. There is currently no counter win condition for the opposite side to achieve victory with. If there were, then they would have a separate goal that could win them the event. Say for example they had to make 20 kills and if they do that before the other side completes their hauling then they've successfully disrupted the supply chain. That's an achievable goal right there. Perhaps make it so that if a vessel is destroyed in transit then it's prevented from making more runs until a long time period, say a day, passes to allow for repairs or what not. That would lower the amount of cargo over time that could be brought to bear upon the established goal. Personally I prefer the kill count, as it's a more definite target, but whatever works out that gives the other side the chance to win their own way I'm for. Either way, the lack of a counter win condition is the single biggest issue with events like this.

This applies to any purely cargo hauling event as it stands. Hopefully this feedback will help fix broken events like this in the future.

So what happens when you're the only person in an American Time Zone and all of your faction in Europe Time Zones goes to bed when you get out of work, so you have to solo transits with what ever transport you have available and with no back up?

[JorgeRyan]

-snip-

So what happens when you're the only person in an American Time Zone and all of your faction in Europe Time Zones goes to bed when you get out of work, so you have to solo transits with what ever transport you have available and with no back up?

Your solo transport gets taken out by a cruiser?

[SnakThree]

"win"? There probably was not a single cargo event that was not completed.

Then comparing cargo event where only 4 IDs are allowed into with absolutely open cargo event with a reward of fixed Titan ship or any other 5ker powertrader's dream of immense profits event.

Then you are comparing an event where there is only one dock point midway with total of 200k cruising with events where you have dockables almost every lane.

Also the supposed number of unlawful trade ships Vs supposed number of lawful combat ships has some disparity in theory, doesn't it?

It's horrible comparison due to such a different nature of lawful Vs unlawful trading circumstances. The point of these events are not win/lose. It's always win/win because participation is its own reward via bonuses and possible individual rewards.

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[Reddy]

With all the sci data being collected during these events, there should be quite anumber of NEMP bombs. Hope we get some bombing soon (FP 11)

[Sombs]

With all the sci data being collected during these events, there should be quite anumber of NEMP bombs. Hope we get some bombing soon (Bretonia)

Fixed that for you.

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[Skorak]

Might make a pvp part 2 of this later with the liner moving forward. Respawns and all.

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[SnakThree]

Is the combat event over?

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[St.Denis]

Is the combat event over?

I believe that Skorak has pulled the plug.

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'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are'
Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person