Battleship weapon changes..

[globalplayer-svk]

but when weapons change as typed above, what chances have bs with less turrets ? i mean osiris, liberty dread,outcast bs,dragon bs, with 12 turrets? ships with 16/18 guns you can equip agai nfighters and cap ships, but when you ahve only 12 turrets you must choice if again cap ships or again small ships.

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[Jinx]

well, whats the big deal then. those ships often trade off a small size for less firepower. - an osiris slips well through asteroids, a juggernaut is a nightmare there.



the problem is not a balance between battleships much. - an osiris would prolly mount 4 antifighter turrets, 1 heavy missile and then 7 primaries - and would still have a lot more firepower than a cruiser. - a juggernaut would have more firepower, no doubt, but why should an osiris go one on one vs. one of the big battleships anyway. they are not meant to be equal in terms of firepower - but equal in terms of features.



but i am biased maybe, cause the only BB i fly is the jug with 16 turrets.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Tic]

This guns would be good.

Main battery

Hull dmg - 10 000
Range - 5500m
Speed - 500m
Tracking(yes tracking) - like Nova torpedo, locks on 6000m, so it is still dodgable
Refire - 1

Anti fighter battery

Hull dmg - 750
Range - 2500m
Speed - 2250m
Refire - 4

[Eppy]

Jinx has the right idea, minus the slower turn rates, of course, and with a few speed adjustments (500 m/s for a heavy gun? We won't hit anything at point-blank range... -.-)

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Grimly]

point defense:

....

it should be easy to hit with, but hard to do much damage with ( compared to a real escort ) - i would set it to 300 / 1.0 - to ensure that we don t have to face anti fighter ships that equip 16 of those turrets to "own" fighters. - of course, they would be useless against other capital ships. - but so are gunboats with excessive missile loadouts - and they caused problems, too.

300 hull dmg = 150 shield dmg ... But HF shield lvl 10 got 245 regen rate per sec ... its not enough or we will have to up the turret amount.
1.0 refire rate is good, but i think 500 dmg at least are needed.

In addition, we can't use well differents bullet speed to attack well (except against cap ship that's why mortars and defilers are slow) so if we have to make 2 types of turrets, give them at least some power.



And i'm thinking about a laser beam turret like this one but more powerfull and only against shield (like debbies or tizzies) like 15/1000 hull/shield damages per shot (always 1.0 refire)

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Taking what's yours since 816 A.S.

[mjolnir]

- firstly - improve battleship armour by a lot. .....so i d rather give them 10 times the current armour while giving cruisers and battleships only gunboat shields )

YES!!!! Exactly, shield size a bit lower (now it's 460k so some 300, cruisers have 250 so ~200 instead), and up the armor at least 3 times no problem. It's the shield that's annoying, comming up all the time with strength that you can't really counter.

- secondly - nerf battleship <strike>turn rate and</strike> agility down to 50% of what its atm. i

Turn rate makes a lot of problems with spinnnig yes, but agility of some of them is rather off... Osiris can basically strafe away from close to any fire over 1000ms...

- main turret: 500 ms, 10000 damage, 6k range ( irrelevant, cause it won t hit at that range ), 2.0 refire, 10.000 energy

main target: other battleship, cruisers
weakness: fighter / bomber

- secondary turret - 2100 ms, 4000 damage, 3k range, 4.0 refire, 15.000 energy -

main target: gunboats
weakness: none

on first look the second one seems a bit too good (like the one universal turret X-Lancer wrote about) , That they eat up energy doesn't help much, I can see just about everyone mounting them against fighters as well, 2100 is much more than current universal BS turrets and damage and refire is higher as well.
especially looking at the speed difference between them. I'd say more likely ~800m/s for the first one and ~1400 for the second one (maybe even less).

- point defense turrets - 6000 ms, 300 damage, 1k range, 1.0 refire, 1000 energy

main target: fighter / bomber
weakness: all capital class ships

YES!! Finally the right idea.. huge speed, low refire, low damage, low range (I would go even to some 800 range) - point is to make it a defensive weapon, so you need limited range so that BS doesn't hunt fighters around, with short range they can always keep distance. Off course energy/damage need balancing but still the right idea.

- missile turret basic - 350 ms, 1200 damage, 4500 range ( or 120 seconds longevity of the missile ), 0.2 refire ( once every 5 seconds ), 50.000 energy. ( and if possible - lock the turret twist, so the turret can really only fire into the original direction [ doesn t affect missiles too much, cause they launch when the missile has the target in the line-of-sight ] )
the blast radius should be as big as a cannonball - the line of sight of the missile should be at least 120 degrees and the turn rate should be as good as a bomber ( good enough, but not good enough to outturn a VHF when its activly dodging ) - such a weapon wouldn t be a fighter killer, but a weapon to keep them busy. a fighter won t be insta killed, especially not at that low fire rate, but the pilot won t have a second to relax while he is in the vicincy of a hostile battleship.

main target: fighter / bomber
weakness: all capital class ships

Don't really know, needs testing, and no you can fire missiles even on targets outside the view and they will still lock and go there...that's why it might be bad idea to give them too high speed.

- missile turret torpedo
main target: all capital class ships
weakness: fighter / bomber

don't really know...

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Tenacity]

the easiest way to make fighters easier to hit is to make the weapon travel speeds faster. Shouldnt just be for battleships either IMO, most gunboats -cant- use turret view effectively in combat because they have fewer guns, less sheilds/hull, and limited firing arcs. Trying to use turret view removes your ability to dodge, which is the only saving grace gunboats and gunships have at the moment against most enemies (fighters/bombers as well as caps).

Gunboats right now may seem like they're whored over a lot, but it's only for the reason that they're fairly inexepensive compared to other capships. Most players dont want to spend a month trading to afford a ship. They're really not that effective in most pvp combat though, despite their 'capital ship' status/shields/hull, they dont work well against anything other than npcs. Gunboats lack the firepower to effectively combat larger ships, despite their manuverability advantages, and they lack the agility to fight fighters and bombers.

Here's how I think things should be balanced, or rather what each ship's role in combat should be:

Battleships:
-Effective against other large capships due to high firepower (meaning effective against cruisers, destroyers, battlecruisers, carriers, and other battleships).
-Effective against smaller craft in that they have a lot of hull/shielding, but other than a few point defense turrets they should be vulnerable to smaller craft due to the agility those ships have.
-----Heavy hitting, but slow turning/travel/refire turrets.

Cruisers/Destroyers/Battlecruisers/Carriers:
-Should be 'middle of the road' craft, effective against the larger battleships when in numbers or when well flown (higher agility than battleships), and slightly more effective against smaller craft than battleships are.
-----Quicker turrets than battleships, but still fairly slow. More energy efficient, but less damage.

Gunboats/Gunships:
-Should be the 'fighter escorts' for larger capships. Their agility and small size allows them to keep up with smaller craft in combat, and should let them effectively dodge fire from larger craft.
-Weapons should be mostly effective against fighters and bombers, but they should have a couple effective options against larger capships (though nowhere near as proficient in that area as larger caps or bombers). Basically, It's the gunboats I see having high travel rate weaponry to take down the smaller, quicker ships.
-----Medium refire / very fast travel speed turrets, but with relatively low damage. Sustained fire could bring down a larger ship, but it's difficult to maintain sustained fire while trying to dodge those heavy hitting shots from those larger ships.

Bombers:
-Should be vulnerable to gunboats and fighters, but extremely effective against larger capital ships (high firepower of torps/cannons, and decent agility to dodge fire from larger ships).
-----Primary weaponry would be torpedoes/heavy cannons (like the supernova). These weapons should have a low travel speed and very low refire rate, but hit extremely hard. Would make them primarily effective against cruisers to battleships, and good pilots would be able to take out gunboats, but ineffective against other ship types.

HF's/VHF's:
-Very effective against bombers and other fighters of their type, but vulnerable to gunboats. Should be able to easily dodge most fire from larger capships, but should not have the firepower to take them down.
-----Same as now, pretty much. Weapons are weaker than capship turrets, and they have significantly less hull/shielding, but they use agility to their advantage.

LF's:
-Very effective against bombers, HF's, and VHF's, but lack the firepower to take down larger ships.
-----Same as HF's/VHF's but much more manuverable and with less firepower.



It may seem lopsided, and that sort of balancing does make some ships immune to others, but it puts a focus on more organized group combat. A battleship is vulnerable to bombers, so the battleship player will want fighter/gunboat escorts when it goes into combat. A gunboat is great against fighters/bombers, but lacks the firepower to destroy cruisers-battleships, so it'll need bombers or larger capships assisting it against those.


Though, this does inadvertently put more focus on player factions, because the 'independents' often fight on their own and not in groups, and they'd be considerably weaker against some opponents than they are now.

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[Tic]

Jinx has the right idea, minus the slower turn rates, of course, and with a few speed adjustments (500 m/s for a heavy gun? We won't hit anything at point-blank range... -.-)

No man, you didnt read right. These projectiles would follow target. They would turn like a torpedo.

[X-Lancer]

@Tic:

allright, i gotto admit, i totally forgot about spinning:laugh:. ahhh.... good point though. allthough we know that intentional ramming is a violation and can be reported if it happens too much. - but didn t you have a nice idea about increasing the damage of ramming? - something to ... at least discourage ramming for players.

bring up the flak....if they get close....they will get pwn by flaks...

[Eppy]

- main turret: 500 ms, 10000 damage, 6k range ( irrelevant, cause it won t hit at that range ), 2.0 refire, 10.000 energy

You sure we're talking about the same gun, Tic? The above is the one I was on about.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.