' Wrote:Take a wild guess what system has the shipyard that builds said capital ships. OMIGOSH its the guard system, owned by OMIGOSH the player faction.
>.>
Plus, nobody minds OC dessies or Liberty anything getting restricted, right now they cling to fighter engagements like flies to poo....
Hmm. If they're availble at a different location. "OMIGOSH" no faction control.
Most dominant factions out there (meaning officially approved player groups that have been given their own guard systems, stations, etc.) should be able to restrict access to anything above cruiser size, IMO.
It's not so much that they dont want anyone but their faction using the ships - independents of that faction (using the tag/ID) should have access as long as they -prove their worth-. By prove their worth, I mean prove that they arent complete idiots using the ships to pvp whore, and that they actually know how to RP and realize that there is a structured ranking system they must follow even if they arent within a faction.
The problem is when you have people who arent members of the faction (not the player faction, but the npc faction) who try to get a capital ship that they dont deserve or that's oorp for them to use. I.e. the dozens of mercs running around new york with liberty gunboats - not acceptable IMO, no matter how mass-produced those ships are.
The main point of having to ask is just so that the player faction 'in charge' knows who has what, and that you have good reason to use that ship.
that is the problem we face... most of the factions that have no capital ships originally have a shipyard only in the guard system, cause its the custom made system. - so by that logic, they can restrict all ships build, cause they are indeed all build in the guard system.
same logic applies to other institutions - like the seat of the goverment. - so if a factions seat is in the guard system, it would be logical that they can govern over the whole zone. - thats up for debate, if having a shipyard really includes ships that may be build there, but sold in a public system.
while i found the idea of putting capships into guard systems a good idea... i am not 100% sure anymore about it. with the current statement "from above" that gives the owners of guard systems a lot of power. - about whats crappy RP. its been subject of discussions all the time and for months or longer.... and no one can say whats good and whats bad RP anyway. - one may say what roleplay is to be expected from a faction member, but cannot say anything about roleplay that is unexpected. - i am not including the people that show no sliver or understanding of RP at all. - but i mean those that have an idea of RP, but their RP idea doesn t meet the general opinions.
that includes people that are not in close contact with others for example. ( like skype ) - people who like to make stories about defection, extrodinary characters, char histories with surprising turns and twists etc.
common sense makes you think that a reasonable regulated use of warships is something positive. but only regulated by a totally unbiased force. jealousy, dislike or friendship and forgiveness play a vital role in decissions made by players. for some more for some less. there is also a reluctance to admit a wrong decission. - actually i have rarely seen anyone ( admins or players ) admit to have made a wrong decission at all - even if the decission appeared to be sort of ... questionable. this point concerns me in particular - the ability to reflect ones mistakes and take the blame - if appropriate of course and the ability to evaluate new situations of the same matter after some time to see what changes have been made and revise the decission.
anyhow, right now, the authority used is fine - but what i am missing is a logfile with the reasons why someone was rejected. that should be done, so people can work on it. and when they worked on it, their case should be reviewed again. - when this is done, there is no reason that authority goes to players-even authority over the whole ZoI
Let's flip this around since we are going to play by "Ha! We got ya!" rules.
It's no longer ooc for an indie cap ship owner to realize he can't trust the bigger groups in his own faction --they might try to seize conttrol or destroy his vessel.
So he's perfectly legit in treating such groups as hostile if they have declared hostilities against him.
He can find allied faction independents and seek their assistance as well.
So don't cry when you have a civil war and say its the indie's fault. Ya'll started it--its the rp you chose to have and made a "rule of"--enjoy.
<span style="font-family:System">Hogosha Exile</span> The Journal of Benjo Dokosai
One can do all the steps of "good" roleplay, one can pay all the fees, one can communitcate with faction leaders ahead of time, and one can pay all the dues to admin and players but in the end its who the admin like, that get heard.
We cant be giveing any new powers to factions if we no longer have the ability to make new factions. Has anyone been approved yet? Has anyone gotten a reason that was promised in the same thread that made us pay 500 million credits? No, so unless the system works like it says there is no need to place anymore restrictions or give established faction more powers when there are no real checks.
A real check would be a real possibility to creat a new faction that gets approved or denied with reason in under a month, otherwise we have closed insiders clubs that start to govern who gets to fly what and, god forbid you get on the bad side of anyone in an established faction who has a character in every major faction.
No, not fair. Why should any player have to measure up to another players RP meter for the right to fly these pixels? If that player finds that another character may cause some changes they dont like they may deny them reguardless of RP. Whats that called? Whatever it is I dont want it here.
But are fairness and freedom reliable? Perhaps in perfect individual world they are. Freedoms are abused just as powers are. And fairness is often found to be an individual perception, varying from person to person and at times not intersecting at all. Feel free to find totally unbiased people too. Absolutes. If only things were linear, straight-forward.
Now because each one can be abused, both play a role of balance check to each other. If power is abused then freedom can balance it out and vice versa. Deprive society of freedom or power - you get the other one left unchecked falling into either totalitarianism or anarchy respectively. To maintain rationality both are needed, healthy community has both. And Discovery is such one if anyone haven't noticed that yet.
' Wrote:Let's flip this around since we are going to play by "Ha! We got ya!" rules.
It's no longer ooc for an indie cap ship owner to realize he can't trust the bigger groups in his own faction --they might try to seize conttrol or destroy his vessel.
So he's perfectly legit in treating such groups as hostile if they have declared hostilities against him.
He can find allied faction independents and seek their assistance as well.
So don't cry when you have a civil war and say its the indie's fault. Ya'll started it--its the rp you chose to have and made a "rule of"--enjoy.
' Wrote:One can do all the steps of "good" roleplay, one can pay all the fees, one can communitcate with faction leaders ahead of time, and one can pay all the dues to admin and players but in the end its who the admin like, that get heard.
We cant be giveing any new powers to factions if we no longer have the ability to make new factions. Has anyone been approved yet? Has anyone gotten a reason that was promised in the same thread that made us pay 500 million credits? No, so unless the system works like it says there is no need to place anymore restrictions or give established faction more powers when there are no real checks.
A real check would be a real possibility to creat a new faction that gets approved or denied with reason in under a month, otherwise we have closed insiders clubs that start to govern who gets to fly what and, god forbid you get on the bad side of anyone in an established faction who has a character in every major faction.
No, not fair. Why should any player have to measure up to another players RP meter for the right to fly these pixels? If that player finds that another character may cause some changes they dont like they may deny them reguardless of RP. Whats that called? Whatever it is I dont want it here.
Forum justice is not fair or reliable.
/signed. (I might sig a certain part of this which I like)
Quote:No, not fair. Why should any player have to measure up to another players RP meter for the right to fly these pixels? If that player finds that another character may cause some changes they dont like they may deny them reguardless of RP. Whats that called? Whatever it is I dont want it here.
Because a lot of 'players' are, frankly, idiots who take pleasure in spoiling the fun for the rest of us by having no roleplay. Hence, we're stepping up and doing what organized power structures do-govern.
And PLEASE, for the love of god, it isn't a civil war, get that through your heads. One ship does not constitute a civil war, it constitutes nothing but a criminal, who is to be shot with extreme prejudice. Stop being so dramatic, it's not a flowery little epic poem we're writing about civil rights, it's a very blunt and basic political dispute between the government and people who aren't even its own citizens (for the most part). I honestly don't see the problem. It's not rocket science. You can get the biggest ship we have to offer with nothing but a polite attitude and a page of logical RP. That's simple. You have a problem? Take it up with the RM and KNF. It's their precedent, not ours.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
' Wrote:Because a lot of 'players' are, frankly, idiots who take pleasure in spoiling the fun for the rest of us by having no roleplay. Hence, we're stepping up and doing what organized power structures do-govern.
And PLEASE, for the love of god, it isn't a civil war, get that through your heads. One ship does not constitute a civil war, it constitutes nothing but a criminal, who is to be shot with extreme prejudice. Stop being so dramatic, it's not a flowery little epic poem we're writing about civil rights, it's a very blunt and basic political dispute between the government and people who aren't even its own citizens (for the most part). I honestly don't see the problem. It's not rocket science. You can get the biggest ship we have to offer with nothing but a polite attitude and a page of logical RP. That's simple. You have a problem? Take it up with the RM and KNF. It's their precedent, not ours.
It's not one ship anymore Eppy, it's time to face the facts. Any Outcast born on Malta (which makes up the majority of indies since it's hard for most to imagine an OC born anywhere else) is a Maltese citizen. The citizens of Malta, the very same men and women who help build your ships (in RP).
We won't have a polite attitude. We're pirates.
You want us to take up a problem with Outcast capital ship restriction with the RM and KNF?
Just give Eppy his bloody page of text to show that you're not an idiot. Or... you can give him 20 pages of arguing about how wrong he is. Kinda foolish if you ask me.
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