This is Exactly what I mean.

[Akumabito]

Oh I could go in to it but I don't think you'd listen. You seem to have just an out and out hatred for factions.

That's not true at all, I've run a faction and been second in command in another, as well as a grunt in more than I can remember.

I do have pretty high standards for a factio though, including an active faction website, and a good attitude toward everyone.

You really didn't read what I wrote. Do you REALLY want to split hairs over the ID of a bloody Star Wars character?

I'm not the one who brought that up, but I do think the BH ID should be a little less lawfully inclined.

BC's all over the place makes actual RPing a BH impossible. Hunting still goes on; but there's little or no RP.

Actually it depends on how you define it. If a BH character on the server has a proper ID and tag, and only attacks players he is allowed to, that is RP. Not deep RP, but it meets the bare minimum.

More RP than that on the server would consist of a few lines of text, but that's difficult for some, I'm a slow typer myself and just can't zing out those one liners with any speed, and I have to look at the keyboard to type as well. I try when I can but most of the time, in combat or chasing, I just can't afford to type.

What would the benefits be? Well players might get
. decent hunting partners, cause that's how hunting works best, and in my experience it's more enjopyable playing a game WITH other people rather than JUST AGAINST them.
. a reputation for being someone who is killing for a living rather than settling some ridiculous oorp grudge - i.e. a bounty hunter.
. the experience of the BH light craft which are outstanding.
. a realisation that the reason you dont see npc BH capships ANYWHERE in Sirius other than the Omicrons, Alaska is because its part of the game. The Core is waging the war against the Order. At the moment,the BHg seems to be a war with all the unlawful factions in Sirius, like police.
. the experience of being a hunter.
But I said all this already. You just didn't read it properly.

SHENANIGANS

I read it properly. The fact is I almost always find indie BH's to team up with (If I find one that speaks english) and the reputation, well, I don't care about that because what I do is overshadowed by what I say here anyway, and for the rest they are not on the forums so they don't care. The other points steer toward giving up the BC for a bomber, but that's a drawback to a faction for a lot of these people.

To start and maintain a BH clan on this server right now, especially one that curtails the large number of BH BC's is an uphill battle, because the BH's are overfilling with the people driven out of outcast space and the only thing you have to offer is structure and removal of the cap ship that someone did a lot of trading to get.

I wish it was different but it's not.

[sovereign]

Akumabito, if you could point me at someone who switched their Outcast ships for equivalent Bounty Hunter vessels that would help immensely with the overhaul in the system being worked on. I would also appreciate you addressing my last post in depth, it is rather important to the issue as a whole.

Also, do you think that if people were offered subsidies to sell their BHG battlecruisers that might help curb the concern about the trading time they spent to buy them?

---

[Blodo]

Akumabito but if you let the indies with caps remain in Outcast space, how does that solve the problem? You still have a ton of caps that have nothing to do but go pvp whore whoever they can. It can't be solved by loosening faction grip on the local players, but admittedly it also won't be solved by tightening it. What it needs is a proper sirius wide BHG faction (let the flames roll) that will take all these indies in or at least try to teach them how to fight and RP..

[Akumabito]

Consider yourself trolled. Not nice is it?

It's a lot better than the standard faction response, at least you are trying to debate points rather than just looking for a way to insult me for not agreeing with you.

Yes, a pvp server would be nice, but there isn't one anymore. Connecticut is fine for two people who want to pvp for a test, but so is 15k above a planet and Connecticut doesn't offer what a pvp server does in that you can't hunt there, only fight.

I do help everytime I am online and see someone who is out of whack, including using bablefish to translate to german or russian and taking people to bases with proper ID's and missions. In that I'm the exception.

People do need to be pointed in the right direction to ask. Otherwise they get worse advice than no advice sometimes. For instance an "angel character" could be reserved for the end of your character name, and the message could say "for help with setting up on the server ask anyone with a "&" at the end of their name"

Then people could be approved to be angels helpers if they are willing and able.

The rules need to be fixed.

And not everyone can read the message dumps everyday, or wants to. That's why it's better to have a narrow and specific forum for a narrow and specific topic.

[Akumabito]

Akumabito, if you could point me at someone who switched their Outcast ships for equivalent Bounty Hunter vessels that would help immensely with the overhaul in the system being worked on. I would also appreciate you addressing my last post in depth, it is rather important to the issue as a whole.

Also, do you think that if people were offered subsidies to sell their BHG battlecruisers that might help curb the concern about the trading time they spent to buy them?

Sorry, you know I miss a lot of posts because usually I am answering 5 different people at once, some of those who post simply to flame, it makes it hard to answer everyone or treat everyone the way they treat me, better or worse.

I don't know anyone specifically who flies a BH BC because they were denied an outcast one, but I know I bought mine because it was the only non regulated cap worth a darn.

While it's true that in larger battles bombers rule all, if you are flying alone a BC is still a better choice, if you end up facing a couple GB's even with a single bomber opponent a single bomber will have a hard time while a BC will likely win. It's only when you have multiple bombers or fighters with mini razors that it fails, and in that scenario everything fails and it becomes whoever has the most people on their side that win. I fly everything from fighters to bombers to my BS (rarely) and the BH GB and BC have the best survivability across all scenarios in my experience.

Also fighter battles take forever (in part due to armor upgrades), and sometimes I don't want to fight for 45 minutes. I'd rather have 10 minutes of fun and get blown up sometimes, especially against multiple opponents and when you kill one and a couple minutes later a "new guy" shows up in a different ship.

If you pay people back for the cap ships, what are they going to use the money on? There's nothing to spend it on but caps once you get a bomber with a SN and codes, armor VIII and the rest, and that's maybe 50 mill.

What am I supposed to spend a billion on, especially if I just hop in the advanced train when nothing else is on the server? Start a clan (and all the grief even trying causes) when all the guard systems are already taken (they should have an extensive monthly maintenance fee as well but that's another subject)? Fly around with a level in the 90's just to look cool?

Now, I can tell you some servers, in the past, have offered buyable uber (or only slightly uber) items to keep people going, and that helps but it's no complete solution. Still, I think it would help (and also make people cheat more by spawning items). It's also more work for the admins.

There are some issues here for certain. New people show up, some don't want to jump into faction (or they do, but also fly inies as well, with 10 or more characters it's easy to be in several factions and still be an indie) but they do want to have fun. What else is there for them but a BH BC to chaise pirates in, or a GB to chase traders in, or both?

Another point I would make, if the server simply did away with caps, would the same issues remain? To some extent they would. Without balance in ships and items something will be better than the rest (or at least be perceived as better than the rest) and the same people flying BH BC's and OC Dessies now (and whoring in them) would be whoring in ravens claws with debilitators, nomads, a mini razor and nuke mines instead, and the factions would still be having to gang up on them.

That being said I think there are solutions that work, at least partially, and don't require the factions to go around pvp whoring people who fly cap ships.

[Snapp]

People do need to be pointed in the right direction to ask.

Going to have to agree here, i've been playing on this server since last september. I'm new, i'm indy, i've been here a fairly long time now.

NOT ONCE has ANY of my indy characters EVER been asked to join a faction or been pointed in the right direction by a faction, INGAME. 9 months and not a single faction member has ever invited me to join, not once has a faction member helped me with my rp or given me suggestions of how to make it better, INGAME!

Until recently, and a faction accually gave me some ingame advice. Was in a starflier flying round gamma and looking to join TBH and wanting them to see that i made it to crete in a flea (born on crete). The first "faction member" that saw me instantly says, "buy a different ship". They didnt seem interested in helping me, didnt seem interested in getting to know me, didnt seem interested in letting me join them, and they didnt seem to care what "my" plans were. For all they knew i coulda been getting ready to buy a battleship or cruiser. Did they seem to care? NO. But if i had bought a capship you bet they would have.

Instead, what i got was "buy a new ship", and being this was comming from a faction, i expected that if i didnt, i would be attacked, or kos'ed, or maybe even asked to leave thier space.

Though i will add that later, INDIES helped me survive the first mission i tried, and helped me with a few more missions so i could get the rep to buy my ID. Did the people with the cool tags infront of thier names help me or attempt to "steer" my rp? NO. But i dont blame the factions, they apparently have bigger fish to fry than to help a single indy trying to grow up in this universe. Oh wait, it's the oorp indies they are cussing about, right? That coulda been me, mr oorp indy in a cruiser who was ignored by the ruling faction, but i allready knew better so i didnt buy one.

So yes, i can see both sides of this argument, capships do need to be regulated to a point, but more than anything FACTIONS need to take a little more care, and show a little INTREST in helping the new guys with THIER RP rather than ignoring indies till they buy a capship or forcing a blanket of clan rp on everyone in thier space.

// end rant

[chovynz]

All players of Discovery RP server must follow the Rules listed below. Not knowing the rules does not relieve any player from responsibility.

All players should register at Discovery forums; it is recommended that players visit this board regularly to know the latest news and updates.

Looks pretty clear to me.
Every single time I meet a new player
I encourage them to sign up on the forums.

Doesn't matter if they are indy or not.
But many Indies I meet dont want to be "controlled" like that.

Edit: How do you propose we address those who dont want to sign up to the forums
(or register their intent on buying ships if you want to put it that way.)

---

Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.

[McNeo]

Do you think we have time to deal with every single indie?

Well, do you?

It takes a good half an hour or more to rep an indie, set one up, do all the things that need doing, point in the right direction, lecture about the rules they likely havent read, give tips on RP and PvP.

Do you really think that we have the time to deal with every single case? Consider the amount of Corsair characters out there is probably in the triple figures.

It was ok when there were only a few Corsairs back when TBH started. It was relatively easy and relaxing to help a new guy find their feet. However, when you get into the numbers that the Corsairs deal with, there are both bad and good things. One of the bad ones you pointed out. Among the good ones is the ability to call reinforcements at a moments notice, though it would certainly be overkill if we did so.

[Dopamino]

Freedom and power is a two way street.

Any player or group of players has the freedom and power to earn the credits to purchase and roleplay a capital ship.

BUT

Any other player or group of players also has the freedom and power to object to the use of that capital ship and use whatever methods they wish to both object verbally to its use, and object to its use on the server through the violent actions of their characters.

If one person has the right to say all by themselves "I bought it so I get to use it" then a group of players has the equal right to say "No you don't". That is the price we all pay for being in a community.

I fail to see any logic or reason in that besides the obvious example of a gang of bullies picking on one kid on the playground because he's weaker. Why do they have that right? Because there are more of them? I think that that it is a really s***ty attitude, one that we should keep out of our community. There's no need to have it except to breed bullies. Do you really want that? I hope not.
As long as the independents roleplay properly then they should be treated no differently than faction members. Why? Because they're both playing the same role in the game. The only difference is that the independent's own backup fleet is imaginary. If the factions roleplay properly, than one of their battleships is no more authoritative than an independent's. Of course, that means that the same battleship belonging to the faction would have more power than an independent cruiser, simply because of the chain of command - not because the BS is a faction member.

---

I mostly lurk around Media Center these days.

[Snapp]

"pointed in the right direction by a faction, INGAME"

First impressions and good in-game rp are made in-game, not on the forums, if factions want to curb oorp capships, the best way is to catch those people BEFORE they buy the ship, and that means taking the time to talk and get to know what thier plans/desires are, ingame. Which means ya gotta be there, in the game, not just on the forums. NO, most indys dont want to be controlled like that, but they dont necesarily wanna be ignored either.

My guess is that most of the "oorp capships" are bought before the person has any inkling of what is going on or what they are doing, they simply have traded thier way to enough money and want to fly a "big ship" since that is one of the coolest things about this mod. Hence why i said factions need to "help steer" thier rp rather than make them hostile, at the very least the factions would have a good idea of what a person is about to do, or what kind of attitude they have ingame. But ya gotta be there, and ya gotta accually talk to them and show intrest and ask questions to find these things out.

The capships that are bought specifically for PVP are most likely done without a care for faction or server politics anyways so getting them on the forums wont really matter to those people. To me those are the ones causing the most of the problems and no amount of bickering between eachother on the forums will ever change that since they dont care about the forums, faction rules, or anything else, but pvp.

Just how i see it from my point of view. Yes im indy, Yes i care about the server and the community. If i didnt, i wouldnt be sitting here typing this up, or on the forums at all for that matter.

It's the ones that DON'T care about factions, indys, or rules, those are the people who are causing the problems. Otherwise known as "troublemakers", they are here with the sole intent of disrupting the fun of other people, thats how they get thier enjoyment. Sadly, the only way to stop uncaring idiots like that is to ban them, once they are found.

Do you really think that we have the time to deal with every single case?

From what i gathered by comments made by some faction members, they outnumber indys anyways, so no, it shouldnt be a prob if faction members outnumber indys by so much that they...

"have every right to pound on you for it, because there are more of us, and so long as we follow server rules, we win." - "we're bigger, and we're more organized" - "The forum goers and faction leaders have lots of friends, and lots of influence"

So going by those statements and if most factions feel that way, then yes, by all means factions should be able to handle every case.

Edit: The way i see it, the indys job to police the factions, the factions job to police the indys, and both need to work together to add some bleach to the servers genepool to get rid of the scum that dont care about anything.