Empty trader attack

[senquist]

I would like to know,why should pirates attack empty trader ships? For pass through with an empty trader is not a fair thing and if the trader don't want to pay, they should kill him, than the trader must not re-enter to the system until the winner leaves it. Why is this good for anyone. The pirate won't get anything, the trader must not re-enter the system. Both of them just waste their time! Then why is this allowed or good?

[Jinx]

there is the difference between pirating and taxing. - the common practice here is taxing. - however, taxing an empty trader is about as good manners as it is for a BHG to attack a pirate without having a contract on him. - the pirate may be hostile, but there is nothing in it for the BHG.
the trader may be trespassing - but all the pirate is doing is putting himself into danger without any prosect of gain.

usually - an empty trader is left alone. - however there are pirate factions out that wouldn t care much about it ( for example gaians, xenos, dragons etc ) that are more interested in keeping certain traders away in general than "only" asking them for a share.

it depends much on the situation, reputation and the traders behaviour. - if the trader shows no sign of acting hostile to the pirate - or has no reputation of giving the faction of the pirate away ( like calling the cops ) - then, it would be detrimental for the pirate to tax the trader - as the result is that the trader will make sure that he ll act hostile the next time he passes the pirates place instead of behaving neutral, or as neutral as is possible.

so its the pirates choice. - he must weigh the consequences and the gain against each other. - when its about the rules, - an empty trader is as much a target as one with a full cargo. factions that do piracy in order to get goods should not pirate an empty trader though ( like rogues, corsairs etc. ) - cause they ll gain nothing at all from them.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[senquist]

Ok I understand your example, but...the traders faction is neutral, thats why they should trade goods and not fighting. For example look at the Swiss. They were in the middle of the World war 2 but they left neutral. They just "traded money for each side". Then I don't understand why they attack traders with zero cargo, after requested money. I'll be silly to pay him! But return to my question and check my question at the RP side. There is a space station in the space. No continously water, oxygen, food. Than why is that bad for any of the factions if a trader goes there and brings there what is mostly needed there. And altough traders make most of the money, they are weak and cannot be defend themselfs against the attackers. Robbing a trader who makes good for your faction is a self-killing tactic. So attacking an empty trader is a totally pointless. That's what I see.

[Jinx]

there are RP flaws on both sides. - when you fly empty and a pirate threatens you, - it is not like you have "nothing to loose" - unless you value your own characters life to be like nothing. - so, its your life you are paying for.

on the other hand, you are of course right, - while we see NPC traders moving goods between the lawful houses, - there is no NPC pirate transport around. - so we must assume that all the supplies are indeed.... pirated. - henceforth, its of a disadvantage for a pirate to attack a trader that is actually willing to deliver them food/oxigen/water. - mind, - few traders do that. - most of them trade stuff that is ... well, not essential for a living ( diamonds, niobium, engines, etc. )

a food trader - even with a neutral trader ID will hardly be stopped when he is approaching planet crete for example. - and by doing so, he will build up a reputation of being of great value to the corsairs. ( of course, it depends on the players around at the time, - but a corsair "should" not tax / destroy a transport full with food that is heading to crete and possibly even taking artifacts back )

roleplay is required on both ends. - when one side refuses to RP an encounter, its hard to get back on tracks. - and both, traders and pirates can so easily drop into the "pay or die" or "i rather die than pay" mood.

the neutral trader ID on the other hand is NOT really a RP ID. its a compromise. there is no such thing as a neutral trader in sirius. - the most closest thing to it is a freelancer. - all other traders are employed at the big cooperations. - imagine that - if we took the neutral trader ID serious, - i am SURE that the cooperations started to - umm... work against them, cause they are of no direct profit for them. - that would cause not only pirates to be the enemies of the neutral traders, but sometimes even cooperation wings that would "take out competition".

so the neutral trader ID is not neutral at all. its lawful and much more affiliated to the police than the pirates. - a trader is usually one of the "good guys" by default, - untill he proves to be of worth for the pirates - which makes him at the same time suspicious at the very least for the police ( or it makes him a smuggler or a junker ) - speaking of the smuggler ID.. if you want to start out "good" by default for pirates - you should use the smuggler ID. - it swaps your starting reputation around ( not too much, but a bit ) - smugglers are usually better looked upon by pirates, but considered doubiously by lawfuls. - and its also a "neutral" ID like the traders.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Stucuk]

Taxing a trader without any cargo (iv had it before) is stupid. Pirates would be dumb to attack there lively hood. If a trader looses alot of money with empty runs then he will have no money left the next time he goes through(Talking about majority of people who are working there way up). If a trader is put into poverty because of taxing eather stupid amounts (like 2 millions when the cargo isn't worth anything near that) or taxing when the trader is empty then he/she won't be able to get a new ship as quickley. Which in turn means that he/she won't be giving a pirate more money in the long term(Bigger the hold, more pirate can tax).

If you think of real life pirates they don't hijack empty vehicles/vessels, they go for ones with loot. They don't do the "Give me 2 million or your dead" speach. If you look at organisations like the Mafia they take a "Cut" of what people are making, that way they keep the buisness men in buisness but they get a nice sum each time that buisness man does buisness.

If a trader is going through unlawful territory then taxing a empty trader for going through there territory is different. But alot of pirates tax empty traders going through house systems.

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[caylith]

You're making this cause of your sanction. Let me make this clear...YOU WERE NOT EMPTY. He asked for the Xenos in your hold. After you f1ed he asked for credits. Stop complaining, senquist.

[senquist]

Caylith if he stops shooting me and tells me to escape read the rules, then return and wait for consequences the ok. But its not happened like this. I made 5 rulebreak the made 4. Thats how it happened and want to know why was it good to attack any trader who was empty cause from the second time i was empty! And won't stopping it until i understand that why should they do things what makes me disadvantage, until they r not santioned but u did it with me! U cannot do anyhing against it. And 1 more thing about the rules:

I will tell ya how i see this line of the rules, and why my comments r right!

"I'm a black jacker on the street. I tell ya 1 rule: If u win i get u $100. But if u not well from 50 meter away here u find a sheet there is the consequences...

The sentence that was here has no place in civilized discourse, so it was eaten by a black hole. ~ Xoria

U say what the....

I say oh sorry u haven't read the sheet, when its first sentece is:

Not knowing the rules does not relieve any player from responsibility.

The second:

If u loose I will piss of your head!"

Sorry if it was a strong example but that's how i see the things!!!!!!!

[senquist]

NOW THAT'S WHY I SAY U DO THE IN GAME RULES TOTALLY OR DELETE THAT RULE SHEET AND PUT THERE A WARNING CARD WHICH TELLS EVERYONE THAT READ THE RULES HERE:... AND "Not knowing the rules does not relieve any player from responsibility."!

CAUSE THAT IS MISSING!!!

UNTIL THAN MY OPINION LEAVES MY OPINION! U CANNOT TAKE IT AND U NOT ALLOWED TO STOP ME TELLING MY OPINION!

[Boss]

Senquist...There ARE the complete rules in-game.

Go to Manhattan commodity dealer and buy a "Discovery RP 24/7 Rules".

You start with one in your hold anyways, but most people just wind up selling them without reading it.

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Just go play the game and have fun dammit.

all in all the conclusion is that disco doesn't need antagonist factions, it doesn't need phantoms, it doesn't need nomads, it doesn't need coalition and it doesn't need many other things, no AIs, the game is hijacked by morons to confuse the game with their dickwaving generic competition games mixed up with troll-of-the-day.

[Reverend Del]

I find the whole concept of taxing silly, Rogues do not tax we rob. I'm not robbing your cargo all the time, sometimes I'm simply trying to rob you, now this won't happen all the time and frankly won't happen often at all, but I would consider pilots to be cargo. I'm not going to rob you if all you are carrying is pilots, but I might ask for them. I will ask for them if they are Rogues.

An empty trader can still be a target but the RP should be more than just "Tax 2 mil" If I'm robbing you you'll know it, becuase I'll probably be trying to score some cred for my next cardamine fix.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.