"Ganking" Complaints (OORP)

[Wesker]

I have addressed this issue in the faction multiple times in the past years. While I have made apologies and told people the situation would never be perfect, people still feel the need to backpedal past my apologies and explanations and judge my faction on the instances of random interactions where they are outgunned numerically - or out right lose due to lack of coordination.

Normally, I would ignore this sort of thing. I very strictly enforce that no members in RHA ever make complaints about anything related to the term "ganking" ingame even if they are outnumbered numerically tenfold. It is not our way, complaints and holding grudges over random interactions that go south based on lack of coordination or numbers to fight whatever enemy awaits us is nothing more then toxic for the server - this policy is one of the reasons why we have been so successful as a faction. However, as of recent some of my own members have been making this issue to me in pm repeatedly. I have purposely not logged in game for the past week to try and alleviate this situation, but it seems that even our newer non-pvp-inclined members are logging in to find entire droves of enemies simply log off. To many of us, including me, I thought it was simply fear of reinforcements from out side, but it turns out that simply is not the case for some of our enemy factions.

Viktor van der Steen
been reading up a bit, and I like markam's way of thinking, but well, TBH tried working together with RHA to make things more fun... seems they are just incabable of fair play so it serves them right to be ignored to death, perhaps in the long run players will flock out to different factions and restore a healthy balance in disco

So it seems some of our enemies are now trying to get our faction to die by simply not participating in anything to do with us. Well, now you've pissed me off.

It's funny, back when I took leadership for RHA, we were a tiny faction looking to establish a name for ourselves. We had never been recognized as a faction to put up a fight - that didn't stop us from logging in and dying repeatedly of course. As my old 2ic Riess would put it "RHA was RM and the Corsairs old punching bag". Naturally, we would have a member or two who would ask if fights to could be a little bit toned in our favor. But our response from these factions at the time (both of which were comprised partly of a member base that is still playing them today) was "get good at the game faggots". Well, now the tables have turned haven't they? But of course when things are on the flipside it's all too much for our opposing factions to bear. Now that Razor Oders, broken titans and centurions cannot save our opponents, they have taken to not logging to interact with us.




This is the last time I am going to make my case on this. I owe it to my HC, which is soon going to be entrusted with the faction for a long time, as well as several others in the faction who are going to be its lifeline for a long time.



The instance at Hamburg was a result of anger from various outside factors. Complaints about our drastic overwhelming force there are something I'd simply apologize for. What I will not constantly apologize for is numerous raids against us or in defense of us where we happen to get 2 or 3 more people than the opposing side subject to situation. I and RHA are NOT going to go out of my way to bring a force that is 100% mirrored to that of our enemy every time in every situation. I will wait for enemies to gather, I will fight against the odds, I will fight caps, razor boats, missile bcs, cloaking dual MR SHFs, dual nova sucidie bombers, freighters. But I will not force our faction members to line up with something 150% identical every time. These complaints are stupid and childish. "Oh my solaris missile gunboat didn't get to duel another gunboat in omega-5 and was ganked by 3 thors" "Oh, our 3 centurions were met with four odins" "Oh, there were 4 thors shooting at my cloaking donau" my response to this is basically to get over yourselves. I very much do not hate to break it to anyone complaining that our faction numbers and willingness to play will not change based on your ability to log off at every interaction. If you want to ignore us, then fine, we will find other ways to muster activity. I would hate for this to be the last resort, as seen in Omega-3, we are always willing to fight regardless of what odds await us. We haven't always preformed perfectly in listed events, even when our caps sink before our enemies and/or we lose - we do not complain about it.

I have told many of my members to ease off the gas when it comes to pvp scenarios, I have isolated myself from various events and response raids conducted by RHA. I logged in today for the first time. I will continue to do so if that is what helps my members find interactions. Believe it or not, not all of our members are ace pilots in the server. We are not what we were in 4.87. We have roughly the same amount of players, but probably not to the same exact standard.


I am leaving discovery soon (a relief to many of you) and want to clear this up to some of our enemies inrp. I am sorry (to an extent) about how hamburg turned up and I am sorry if there were was some miraculous fight in the past where you were violated like that kid in candy land who had to move backwards on his first move. But I will not apologize for every individual instance of this. RHA will always exist and play on the server with its member base, even if you wont get over yourselves and stay offline. If that is the way it has to be, then so be it, but I would hate for that to be the end result in every case.


This is the last time I am ever going to cover this in the form of a thread on the forums. I will probably regret this in a few minutes, but communication - even with those who dislike me - is key. This thread is open for complies, laughs, huehue harold memes, or to just yell at me and call me a retard. Whatever the case may be.

tl dr srry for gank but stop being a pussy

---

[Madvillain]

If you apologise for something but blatantly keep on doing it, your apology means nothing.
Good conduct, or at least fair conduct leads to people wanting to play with you.
Doing otherwise leads to people avoiding you.
This is a multiplayer server, not a singleplayer game.
You aren't entitled to have people playing with you.

---

Baila Morena | Toilet Trouble | Elder Presidente[TBH] | The Titan Combat Manual | Confession
♰ Join the Corsair Brotherhood ♰

[Kanzler Niemann]

I have to agree with this at all points. I also think it is a laughable excuse to say "we're bad at pvp so we can use number advantage".

---

[Wesker]

If you apologise for something but blatantly keep on doing it, your apology means nothing.
Good conduct, or at least fair conduct leads to people wanting to play with you.
Doing otherwise leads to people avoiding you.
This is a multiplayer server, not a singleplayer game.
You aren't entitled to have people playing with you.

No I am not entitled to have people play with me. What I am trying to explain is that I also cannot promise a perfect scenario every single time. The fact that many of our adversary's willingness to log hinges on the perfection of our response numbers is unrealistic and ridiculous. There is no instance where every faction every time responds perfectly with the perfect amount and the perfect outcome. It is not possible for us or anyone else. This is being used as an argument against us. Examples similar to what I listed being " 3 wraiths being shot by 4 odins constitutes a gank" are what I am referring to.

---

[Omicron]

What is with RHA being "minor faction", a punchbag for everyone else and not having fighter spirit? I followed the happenings of Red Hessians way before you took over it and I always recall it being stronk and willing to put up a fight no matter the circumstances. The "Raid Gamma everyday" spirit never left. You never allowed it to leave in the first place.

You convinced me to play in Rheinland more.

---

[Markam]

Seeing as my name cropped up in the OP I should reply just to say what my "thinking" is.

I just encouraged dialogue between Wesker and his "opponents" (re: Madvillain and Exe - TBH/RM lead). Because regardless of anything, the relationship between faction player bases is fundamental to the game being played. You can have strong rivalries like RM vs RHA, but you can also have situations like MRG vs BAF, where the player base is shared to a certain extent, both work, but both require a certain level of mutual respect, or the situation that is happening now will continue. I am a strong believe that all parties are reasonable, sensible human beings, and I am also a strong believe in peoples ability to change, especially when we are considering the fact that most of the people involved are still growing as human beings, many people started playing this server in their early teens and some have grown up to be in their late twenties and thirties, and even the older players I think can make changes to their way of thinking and behavior, perhaps only in small increments, but it is possible.

I have heard both sides of the story, it is both personal and not personal in nature, both sides take jabs at the conduct of leadership and the attitude in-game, and of the personality of individuals. Wesker claims there are isolated incidents, and while it is not perfect, it is not as abysmal as stated. The other side has the opinion that it is not isolated and it is in fact ingrained in the RHA philosophy, encouraged by Wesker and others, to attack with force in all scenarios, sometimes due to angst at story, sometimes because of personal hate like that against the likes of Tanith (Riel). I was preset at Hamburg on the RHA side, and the conduct was not good. I think to a certain extent both sides are correct, and while Wesker has stated he is sick of apologizing and asking for fresh starts, I must compel all parties to try again, and again, and again.

And I encourage all parties to grow a little each new start, and always, always maintain one key thought, that people are not the devil 24/7.

---

Markam is evil

[Durandal]

I think, that in 95% of the scenarios complained about, and described, that your pilots are simply worth more than the other side's pilots. I think that two RHA Odins, under most circumstances, especially assuming one of them is you Wesker, can handle four other people, and have it be a more interesting, more fair, and more fun fight for all involved.

People log to participate for fights they have a chance to win. I don't think you realize that despite even numbers, you are still guaranteed a victory in most circumstances. Does that mean you should be punished for being good at the game, or that skilled players should be stigmatized? No. But the onus of creating a balanced fight falls to the most capable people in the room, and we both know that balance rests heavily upon experience and skill, not only (or even mostly), numbers and ships.

We had an honor system so thoroughly rooted in Discovery's very existence back in the day that the [LN] and [RM] circa 2010 would actually shoot their own indies if they jumped in and unbalanced a fight, and would happily sit people out and juggle people of varying skill levels around to ensure it wasn't a complete stomp. If your people are of a higher skill level than the rest of the server then yes, if you want a balanced fight, sometimes some of them will need to sit out and not participate. But I think that this is worth it, if such behaviour ultimately encourages others to show up and participate, which also allows more of yours to participate, so on and so forth.

[Timinator]

While i have absoloutly nothing against u as a person, let me give you an instance from yesterday:

1 [RM] member logged, and 4 [RHA] + 1 indie came for him. System Neu Berlin. they blocked all gates and waited to catch him 5 v 1. I dont even think its your fault but numbers speak for themself. Therefore Im in your signature as well. - Elbe

[Nepotu]

Will people ever stop crying on this server? Just grow a pair of balls, play the game and stop whining. That's how you deal with unfairness in real life too?

You got ganked? Get over it. You can come back in the system 1h later.

---

[Lythrilux]

Will people ever stop crying on this server? Just grow a pair of balls, play the game and stop whining. That's how you deal with unfairness in real life too?

You got ganked? Get over it. You can come back in the system 1h later.

Not saying RHA is guilty of this, but generally speaking that's a terrible attitude. One offs are acceptable, especially in the chaos of a fight where more people stream in and it's hard to balance. But consistently ganking, whether you're going out of your way to do it or not, is bad pvp etiquette and will make people not want to log in at all.

---