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LaWey · (This post was last modified: 05-14-2020, 07:33 AM by LaWey.)

Quote:- Omicron Gamma, a system that is supposed to be secret not too long ago and home to a pirate fatcion, is a travel highway for 2 things

Its have passthrough design for year or more, since Theta hub was splitted.

Also about those routes - right now - meeeeh. Can we expect additional ores for unlaws eco?

Spectre · (This post was last modified: 05-14-2020, 08:26 AM by Spectre.)

(05-14-2020, 07:05 AM)Karst Wrote:
Quote:What was wrong with the Iridium sellpoint on Sabah? Not sure why it needed to be moved to inside Bretonia when Coronado worked just fine.
Basically, that's what was wrong with the entire system. Every faction wanted to have their own buyers, resulting in every ore going to very nearly every place.

When implementing a streamlining process like this, you either do, or do not. There is no try. No more half measures, Walt.
Five houses, ten fences, one independent. We cannot have four of the houses using the capital as their buyers, while Bretonia is using something in Coronado. We cannot commit to this basic setup, but add exceptions for every faction desirous of their own buypoint, that's pretty much what happened before and look where that left us.

It's also a deliberate attempt to keep the ores away from factions as much as possible, which is why the houses use the most diplomatically basic buypoints, their capital planets. Gallia is only an exception to save players from having to remember which of New Paris' docking rings is the correct one.

So, streamlining the system and making other, non-house systems pointless is the goal? Not only does that make certain areas seemingly devoid of traders, but it also makes the lanes funnels for pirates. Good for activity, yes, but not a motive to provide quality interactions. Add in that there are no 'half-profit destinations', and you're taking away locations that don't fit into this system that realistically would probably welcome a lot of these commodities. Sabah accepted Iridium, which was likely being used for construction of high-grade electronics for the people who owned the base. The Outcasts accepted Military Salvage, which was being rehashed into new parts for their capital fleets and cardi-farming systems. Aland accepted Niobium, which was likely being used to better facilitate the repair of the Bretonian Armed Forces. Chugoku accepted Gold Ore, which funded the Dragon's ambitions and likely helped to tool their fleets as well. Omega-52 accepted Silver Ore, which also was likely funding the Coalition, and helping with electronics. Both Durban Station and Alexandria Research Station accepted Azurite Gas, which realistically should always be something the Core and Order respectively would pay a good penny for. Syros Shipyard accepted Copper Ore, which the Corsairs would always need for circuitry for their Empire's war machine against Rheinland.
This new system throws all that away in the favor of 'streamlining the process' and 'making activity more common'. The examples I provided may be hard inRP takes on how the system currently runs, but they are realistic, they're balanced, and they already provide a good amount of activity.

To point out a key line..

(05-14-2020, 07:05 AM)Karst Wrote: Every faction wanted to have their own buyers, resulting in every ore going to very nearly every place.

What is the problem with this? I look at the system we have now and I see diversity. I see options.
I despise the word 'superfluous' because it's a get-out-of-jail-free card that developers and people who work with them can use to dish away features that add to the immersion or functionality of a game world. While I don't know if the word has been used yet here, I certainly see its after-effects. Removing options from trading is like making every gun in the game fire at the same speed. A small change that, ask Wesker about it, makes a critical difference.

I personally don't see any value in this new proposed system. There's a reason we ditched trains for airplanes.

#BringBackTheCommonwealth

=CR=------*L|------TFP)

--.--

---.-

A plurality is not a majority, and a majority is not everybody.

Spec's RP Consortium
V-3X | CV-Montu | Fort Murray
Unum pro Omnibus, Omnes pro Uno

Your signature grew too big, I helped downscale it. ~Vex
Your adjustment grew too big, I helped downscale it. ~Spectre

**Karst** · 05-14-2020, 08:48 AM,

(05-14-2020, 08:24 AM)Spectre Wrote: So, streamlining the system and making other, non-house systems pointless is the goal? Not only does that make certain areas seemingly devoid of traders, but it also makes the lanes funnels for pirates. Good for activity, yes, but not a motive to provide quality interactions. Add in that there are no 'half-profit destinations', and you're taking away locations that don't fit into this system that realistically would probably welcome a lot of these commodities. Sabah accepted Iridium, which was likely being used for construction of high-grade electronics for the people who owned the base. The Outcasts accepted Military Salvage, which was being rehashed into new parts for their capital fleets and cardi-farming systems. Aland accepted Niobium, which was likely being used to better facilitate the repair of the Bretonian Armed Forces. Chugoku accepted Gold Ore, which funded the Dragon's ambitions and likely helped to tool their fleets as well. Omega-52 accepted Silver Ore, which also was likely funding the Coalition, and helping with electronics. Both Durban Station and Alexandria Research Station accepted Azurite Gas, which realistically should always be something the Core and Order respectively would pay a good penny for. Syros Shipyard accepted Copper Ore, which the Corsairs would always need for circuitry for their Empire's war machine against Rheinland.
This new system throws all that away in the favor of 'streamlining the process' and 'making activity more common'. The examples I provided may be hard inRP takes on how the system currently runs, but they are realistic, they're balanced, and they already provide a good amount of activity.

To point out a key line..

(05-14-2020, 07:05 AM)Karst Wrote: Every faction wanted to have their own buyers, resulting in every ore going to very nearly every place.
What is the problem with this? I look at the system we have now and I see diversity. I see options.
I despise the word 'superfluous' because it's a get-out-of-jail-free card that developers and people who work with them can use to dish away features that add to the immersion or functionality of a game world. While I don't know if the word has been used yet here, I certainly see its after-effects. Removing options from trading is like making every gun in the game fire at the same speed. A small change that, ask Wesker about it, makes a critical difference.

I personally don't see any value in this new proposed system. There's a reason we ditched trains for airplanes.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on a lot of things here I'm afraid, but I'll try the address the specifics.
As you point out, the objective is indeed to funnel traders and potential pirates into a smaller selection of locations, which should be good for activity. Not really anything I can say there except that yes, this is intended, and if you disagree with that motivation I'm afraid I can't help you.
As for the access of certain factions for certain goods, these should by and large be covered by existing buyers: Freeport 9 is acting as a neutral hub for the Omicron economy, so that Outcasts have a place to trade the Military Salvage you mention and the Corsairs their Copper. Obviously Freeport 9 doesn't have a smelter so the implication is that these goods pass through the station to their final destinations of various industrial operations in the Edge worlds. By the same merit, CR should have no issue trading on New London so I'm not sure what the problem with Iridium passing through there is. Aland is a good example of a base that not only creates an unnecessary split between a house's main buyer in the capital and a station in their border worlds, but also an unacceptable choice of IFF, since for example Kruger cannot dock on BMM bases, despite having no general diplomatic issues with Bretonia.

Silver to Omega-52 or Azurite Gas to the Order and Core's Omicron bases are examples of routes that are unacceptably short. There absolutely cannot be routes that are two or three systems long and located entirely in remote regions, even if the RP justification is there. In fact as a general rule, much as with pvp balance, economic development must always favor balance over RP concerns.

I'm sorry to say that the 'diversity' you speak of simply isn't desirable in a system that's aimed primarily at promoting player interaction.

Spectre · (This post was last modified: 05-14-2020, 09:08 AM by Spectre.)

(05-14-2020, 08:48 AM)Karst Wrote:
Quote:So, streamlining the system and making other, non-house systems pointless is the goal? Not only does that make certain areas seemingly devoid of traders, but it also makes the lanes funnels for pirates. Good for activity, yes, but not a motive to provide quality interactions. Add in that there are no 'half-profit destinations', and you're taking away locations that don't fit into this system that realistically would probably welcome a lot of these commodities. Sabah accepted Iridium, which was likely being used for construction of high-grade electronics for the people who owned the base. The Outcasts accepted Military Salvage, which was being rehashed into new parts for their capital fleets and cardi-farming systems. Aland accepted Niobium, which was likely being used to better facilitate the repair of the Bretonian Armed Forces. Chugoku accepted Gold Ore, which funded the Dragon's ambitions and likely helped to tool their fleets as well. Omega-52 accepted Silver Ore, which also was likely funding the Coalition, and helping with electronics. Both Durban Station and Alexandria Research Station accepted Azurite Gas, which realistically should always be something the Core and Order respectively would pay a good penny for. Syros Shipyard accepted Copper Ore, which the Corsairs would always need for circuitry for their Empire's war machine against Rheinland.
This new system throws all that away in the favor of 'streamlining the process' and 'making activity more common'. The examples I provided may be hard inRP takes on how the system currently runs, but they are realistic, they're balanced, and they already provide a good amount of activity.

To point out a key line..

Quote:Every faction wanted to have their own buyers, resulting in every ore going to very nearly every place.
What is the problem with this? I look at the system we have now and I see diversity. I see options.
I despise the word 'superfluous' because it's a get-out-of-jail-free card that developers and people who work with them can use to dish away features that add to the immersion or functionality of a game world. While I don't know if the word has been used yet here, I certainly see its after-effects. Removing options from trading is like making every gun in the game fire at the same speed. A small change that, ask Wesker about it, makes a critical difference.

I personally don't see any value in this new proposed system. There's a reason we ditched trains for airplanes.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on a lot of things here I'm afraid, but I'll try the address the specifics.
As you point out, the objective is indeed to funnel traders and potential pirates into a smaller selection of locations, which should be good for activity. Not really anything I can say there except that yes, this is intended, and if you disagree with that motivation I'm afraid I can't help you.
As for the access of certain factions for certain goods, these should by and large be covered by existing buyers: Freeport 9 is acting as a neutral hub for the Omicron economy, so that Outcasts have a place to trade the Military Salvage you mention and the Corsairs their Copper. Obviously Freeport 9 doesn't have a smelter so the implication is that these goods pass through the station to their final destinations of various industrial operations in the Edge worlds. By the same merit, CR should have no issue trading on New London so I'm not sure what the problem with Iridium passing through there is. Aland is a good example of a base that not only creates an unnecessary split between a house's main buyer in the capital and a station in their border worlds, but also an unacceptable choice of IFF, since for example Kruger cannot dock on BMM bases, despite having no general diplomatic issues with Bretonia.

Silver to Omega-52 or Azurite Gas to the Order and Core's Omicron bases are examples of routes that are unacceptably short. There absolutely cannot be routes that are two or three systems long and located entirely in remote regions, even if the RP justification is there. In fact as a general rule, much as with pvp balance, economic development must always favor balance over RP concerns.

I'm sorry to say that the 'diversity' you speak of simply isn't desirable in a system that's aimed primarily at promoting player interaction.

Why wouldn't I just go to Valetta or Tripoli to sell military salvage to people who would pay high price for high-grade military hardware?
Why wouldn't I go straight to the Order or Core to sell highly profitable gas that both factions have displayed very high interest in?
Keep in mind that the Order has a vested interest in Azurite Gas, yet realistically cannot sell it on any station that you have planned for this change. The only one that's even remotely acceptable to them is Ames, and even then Order policy is typically to keep dangerous crap out of the hands of common folk. The Core I understand, since they're idiots who specialize in fondling the houses with special trinkets from the Omicrons, but even they have a vested interest in knowing what this crap does.

Promoting activity, or streamlining, at the expense of decreasing the natural feel of the universe is a fundamental idea I wish I could destroy, because it tells me you'd rather play Todd Howard than try and fix something that is fundamentally a good idea with flawed execution.

Diversity in the eyes of this overhaul isn't 'undesireable', it's 'superfluous'.

#BringBackTheCommonwealth

=CR=------*L|------TFP)

--.--

---.-

A plurality is not a majority, and a majority is not everybody.

Spec's RP Consortium
V-3X | CV-Montu | Fort Murray
Unum pro Omnibus, Omnes pro Uno

Your signature grew too big, I helped downscale it. ~Vex
Your adjustment grew too big, I helped downscale it. ~Spectre