Siege bloodlust

[SnakThree]

Ok so if you siege a base with 8 ships, thats 3 defenders per attacker needed to pop an attacker?

only have to do it 8 times and your base is now free and clear for 3 days, BCs and below don't put out appreciable DPS against a base

this also assumes the worst case scenario of only killing 1 bs for your 3

No wonder that they are not suggesting for defenders combat and trade ships to be equally long PvP dead in return.

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[Darkseid667]

The biggest issue with POB sieges is that only one side faces permadeath of an entity. This has been the issue with POBs and sieges from the get-go and I don't think the original implementers of them thought through the long-term ramifications of having them be permanently killed by fleets of ships where the only penalty for dying is "come back in an hour".

I would personally much prefer to fix this with a simple base game mechanics solution (an actual proper class of siege turrets that aren't just really slow sci-data battleship heavies) than with a rules one (eg. failing a siege prevents you from re-attempting it for a few days).

Very good point. While a battleship can cost up to two billion Cr fully outfitted, the risk of losing it during a siege is pretty much nil. The POB is gone forever, however. Sieges would be far more taxing for the attacker and defender if any ship involved would be permanently deleted in case of destruction.

PS: Yes, I mean it. Permanently. But with refund.

[E X O D I T E]

Ok so if you siege a base with 8 ships, thats 3 defenders per attacker needed to pop an attacker?

only have to do it 8 times and your base is now free and clear for 3 days, BCs and below don't put out appreciable DPS against a base

this also assumes the worst case scenario of only killing 1 bs for your 3

No wonder that they are not suggesting for defenders combat and trade ships to be equally long PvP dead in return.

Boy oh boy, defenders just filtering in would be even more discouraged to filter in.

We saw that in the sieges I was defending a base in, people would log in one at a time and would get piled in on. In a siege, everyone besieging is assumed to already be there, so they would always have a numerical advantage. I have never defended a pob and outnumbered the other guys, it was always me and maybe two randoms at most vs a massive fleet. To be further penalized past the god-awful gameplay experience the previous sentence implied would just be plain discouraging.

This also assumes the attacking players just don't have a stable of capships that they can just rotate in. You finally kill one, so that ship is gone for three days, but an hour later, they're on a ship with that exact same loadout but with a different name, so all you really got out of it was a bluemessage.

tl;dr 10 guys alt tab afk shooting can go not really play the game somewhere else, defenders actually do activity for as long as it lasts.

EDIT: Permanently deleting a ship, but then refunding it anyway? That makes all of no sense. Also, again, I don't want to be further penalized for having the bad luck to be piled on by six guys on comms with no intention of giving me a duel or anything remotely resembling a fair fight.

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[SnakThree]

Attackers need to have prepared battleships to siege, which costs money. Money obtained via ingame activities. For example, to make LNS battleship for sieging illegal POBs, I spent over a billion of my own credits that I earned via trading on my Ageira ship. That's activity.

Also, I defended POBs on few occasions with great success. It just requires to involve people who are not dulled out from POB supplying and understand how group fight works. It's up to defenders to be ready for a fight rather than hope for POB to be immune from any risk associated with building one.

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[E X O D I T E]

Attackers need to have prepared battleships to siege, which costs money. Money obtained via ingame activities. For example, to make LNS battleship for sieging illegal POBs, I spent over a billion of my own credits that I earned via trading on my Ageira ship. That's activity.

Also, I defended POBs on few occasions with great success. It just requires to involve people who are not dulled out from POB supplying and understand how group fight works. It's up to defenders to be ready for a fight rather than hope for POB to be immune from any risk associated with building one.

The people who have been declaring sieges lately have entire stables of battleships and are coordinated. Look at the Xenon hunting party in Kusari, within around 24 hours, they rolled out a Togo battleship squad, bullied the randoms that make up most of the lawful Kusari player population, and that was that. The defending players, on the surface, outnumbered the besiegers by around a three to one margin, but people would still log in maybe one or two at a time to defend, from what I was seeing.

There is a slight difference between "wanting their pixels to be immune" and "having been targeted by players who've spent more time in conn practicing pvp than they have spent playing the game total". With a skill/numbers gap so large as to be actually insurmountable for most players these days, of course people are going to want to find ways to even things out.

The ultimate problem with the sieges is that it's a group of aces flocking together because of course you want to play the game with your friends, which means that any group of randoms is screwed because people want to have fun playing together on a multiplayer game.

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[Reddy]

Another PoB thread, jeez

Right now PoB are so darn easy to spam and require little investment for a core 1, make them cost 10 times as much or more(rn its 1-2million+base builder), having a clutter of PoBs all around makes it unsightly and annoying to pvp around if they have weapon platforms (i.e Bering, NY)

also agree with them costing less resources and time investment so the thought of losing one wouldn't sting as much

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[HoakinBlackforge]

Maybe we should implement a rule that gives the chance for the owner to pay quarterly "tax" or something like that, before the enemy start the siege. Don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Just an idea...

Yep! And over time things change. Occupying forces get pushed back, PoB's are still there, Win-Win. RL has given us the blueprint.

That reminds me of the bloodbath of B-R5RB, it all started because someone literally forgot about 1 payment.

Im not kidding.

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[LuckyOne]

Attackers need to have prepared battleships to siege, which costs money. Money obtained via ingame activities. For example, to make LNS battleship for sieging illegal POBs, I spent over a billion of my own credits that I earned via trading on my Ageira ship. That's activity.

Also, I defended POBs on few occasions with great success. It just requires to involve people who are not dulled out from POB supplying and understand how group fight works. It's up to defenders to be ready for a fight rather than hope for POB to be immune from any risk associated with building one.

The thing is, the attackers only need to pay the setup cost once to siege a (potentially) unlimited number of POBs, and the defenders/builders need to pay the initial + ongoing costs, and do it for each POB they lose. It's not very fair, is it?

I wouldn't go as far as making Battleships perma-die or try to enforce longer PVP death, as that would be setting a bad precedent, and make sieges a report-fest with tons of work for the admins. An ammo based mechanic as jammi suggested would probably be the best. It adds risk for the attackers where there is very little to begin with, and puts a natural limit on how long sieges can last (as long as the attackers can bear the costs of losing ammo on death).

Another option could be to make the ammo launchers be produced on other POBs, adding another timesink / RP requirement for sieges, but that might be going dangerously close to Binski wetdreams . And it would seem to defeat the point for people who siege POBs because they dislike there being too many, because they would need POBs of their own to siege effectively.

Of course some factions don't have cruisers and up so maybe there also need to exist a smaller launcher/ammo version, allowing smaller factions to also siege effectively. Or better yet introduce a civilian / available to all battlecruiser that can only effectively be used for sieges. Make it something like a militarized 5ker capable of only mounting enough guns to siege, but not defend itself and instead rely on fighter / gunboat cover for protection.

Another PoB thread, jeez

Right now PoB are so darn easy to spam and require little investment for a core 1, make them cost 10 times as much or more(rn its 1-2million+base builder), having a clutter of PoBs all around makes it unsightly and annoying to pvp around if they have weapon platforms (i.e Bering, NY)

also agree with them costing less resources and time investment so the thought of losing one wouldn't sting as much

But core 1 are supposed to be "disposable" POBs. They should be used for smuggling / illegal activities / temporary storage. They provide lawful heavy assets something to do in absence of other players. PVP-ing around them should be annoying, that's their purpose. If you need to PVP near them you should call for some heavy backup and destroy the POB first.

[Darkseid667]

Hmmm, ok, I got my mind changed. Expensive ammo for siege drivers that can really pack a punch is probably better than PvP killing Battleships for a certain time or forever. It takes really long to kill a shielded POB with conventional heavy mortars...

[Grumblesaur]

Hmmm, ok, I got my mind changed. Expensive ammo for siege drivers that can really pack a punch is probably better than PvP killing Battleships for a certain time or forever. It takes really long to kill a shielded POB with conventional heavy mortars...

Heavy mortars are one of the worst choices for sieging anyway. Most siege battleships that don't have the scidata siege guns are just using primaries and cerbs.

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