[PoB] Weapon platforms and PoBs part 2

[darkwind]

Background: Soon going to come into an effect change regarding weapon platforms. They will not be triggered by small damage done by neutral or friendly ships. But there is second idea after that, which will remove threat of weapon platforms completely, is it needed, or not? Here the idea:

Name:Weapon platforms change Part 2

Description: Removing from bases hostile to many players defense mods (to remove weapon platforms hostility by default) and replacing them with nodocks regulations only (based on base IFF and/or friendly/foe lists).

Making exception to allow mass hostile mods (based on base IFF and friendly/foe lists) during clear siege situations (sieges would be identified automatically by additional damage counting conditions, and by siege state of nearby bases).

Effects #1: No more hostile bases to anyone, unless siege happened to base.
Some hostile unlawful passes lawful bases? PoBs do not take action
Some lawful pass unlawful base? PoBs do not take action anymore.
No ship will be able to hide behind pobs with this change.
PoBs will defend only themselves or their neighboring Pobs, and that's it.

Effects #2: Since weapon platforms will be fulfilling only their role to protect the base, they can be made stronger to fulfill their role better.

Effects #3: People who like to burn pobs will be in theory looking at pobs much more calmly, because PoBs will stop being a threat that blocks NPC bases/jump gates and e.t.c.

Sketch of idea in more details:
different levels of trigger happiness based on more damage levels.

1) base suffered less than 400'000 damage by any player and has less than... lets say 4 million damage from all players in 24 hours. (those numbers before shield modifier again)

mod = most friendly or neutral to everyone (peaceful mod)
defensemode 2 does IFF based nodock
blacklist IFF only does nodock
blacklist shipnames only does nodock

2) base suffered more than 4 million damage in 24 hours (those numbers before shield modifier again)

mod = trigger happy (anti-siege mod is on)
in any defense mode IFF attitude to baserep begins to trigger hostility
blacklist IFF hostility begins to trigger hostility
blacklist shipnames begins to trigger hostility
turns nearby bases to trigger happy mod as well

hmm, still window for abuse.
what if 4 million damage is done by friendly abuser who wishs to trigger IFF based hostility?

well as a choice, 4 million of damage must be performed by players which would be hostile based on IFF or blacklist anyway

P.S. for a pob to attack a particular one player, it still enough to cause more than 400'000 damage. While anti-siege mod is not triggered, it will attack only this particular offensive player.

I feel like people are drawing the exact opposite conclusions of what this change actually means.

Platforms are currently fairly useless against a competent sieging force. A while ago I was part of a siege against a base with a decent chunk of platforms. Our solution to that problem was to have one player in a gunboat press one of his TS keys and hold it down for a couple hours (can tab out or press enter to keep it pressed, if you want). This made the platforms permanently miss and kept all our Battleships safe and sound.

Platforms are currently an area denial weapon: they annoy people and make them not want to play in a certain area. They are of very little use in situations where PoBs are actually threatened*.

We could make platforms do a better job at defending from sieges if this change passed. They could be more accurate at longer ranges against capital ships, the anti-small-ship platforms could effectively create a deathzone for smaller ships to prevent them distracting the anti-cap platforms, etc. However, we currently cannot do so as half the game universe would be rendered unplayable by angry PoBs.

*) Unless you go full New London, of course.

Just tell me why a base should not be shooting at an enemy ship? All NPC bases do it.

Very well. I have an alternate proposal, then: reduce the combat effectiveness of a base's combined weapon platforms to be comparable to a Station armed with standard Station weaponry. If you want to compare apples to oranges, allow me to turn the oranges into apples.

[LaWey]

FRAUD. i thought you write thing that will turn on them only in siege conditions but you just did it on hostility.

Of course we need them not shooting around until siege happens, that all the sense. Clear as day that INDEED THAT we were needed from the start.

BASE NOT SIEGED = WP NOT SHOOTING. Needed that for years, damn how it was even possible think that complicated.

[Megaera]

Just tell me why a base should not be shooting at an enemy ship? All NPC bases do it.

Lorewise it makes no sense and it seems easy to exploit for siegers

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Matriarch Of the Gen'an Chrysanthemums - Ishikawa Aya
Gen'an Cell Information - Recruitment - Communications Network

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Megaera - Ishikawa Masako
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[LuckyOne]

While WPs are annoying and (some) people here despise base hugging I believe removing "tactical" advantages from the game to be a mistake. First the mine fields / explosive gas fields are nerfed, then the regular NPC WPs, now there's suggestion to remove area denial from base WPs...

Pretty sure if this continues we can just remove everything besides Connecticut so everyone can have a fair and balanced firefight in controlled conditions, every time, right ?

In my honest opinion what is really needed is a fix to unlimited WP respawns / or unlimited WP ammo. That way the platforms can still be (ab)used creatively (hey, someone might RP blockading an important jump hole or something - with real in-game consequences - not that it is allowed under normal conditions as far as I know?), but he would have to maintain supplies to keep the WPs effective.

This would also allow a siege using a lighter, but a more persistent force, one that would target WPs until their respawns run out, then attack unopposed by hard hitting WPs.

[darkwind]

Just tell me why a base should not be shooting at an enemy ship? All NPC bases do it.

Lorewise it makes no sense and it seems easy to exploit for siegers

POBs with weapon platforms were long time blamed for being space dominatiors.
They were used to even blockade jumpholes and attacking anyone not friendly
Hell they are still used to blockade manhattan docking ring for example
Basically POBs bring advantage mostly to lawfuls
While giving unlawfuls headache and disappointment

[darkwind]

While WPs are annoying and (some) people here despise base hugging I believe removing "tactical" advantages from the game to be a mistake. First the mine fields / explosive gas fields are nerfed, then the regular NPC WPs, now there's suggestion to remove area denial from base WPs...

Pretty sure if this continues we can just remove everything besides Connecticut so everyone can have a fair and balanced firefight in controlled conditions, every time, right ?

In my honest opinion what is really needed is a fix to unlimited WP respawns / or unlimited WP ammo. That way the platforms can still be (ab)used creatively (hey, someone might RP blockading an important jump hole or something - with real in-game consequences - not that it is allowed under normal conditions as far as I know?), but he would have to maintain supplies to keep the WPs effective.

This would also allow a siege using a lighter, but a more persistent force, one that would target WPs until their respawns run out, then attack unopposed by hard hitting WPs.

Weapon platforms already do not perform their job to protect base. They can be disabled with quite easy. PoB owners who more concerned for their pob, instead of playing POB domination, would prefer seeing them buffed at the cost of removed space domination.

[JCPC]

Terrible change, As much as some hate how they work, TBH mosof these guys are just hardcore PvP seekers. As said earlier:

Pretty sure if this continues we can just remove everything besides Connecticut so everyone can have a fair and balanced firefight in controlled conditions, every time, right ?

If this gets implemented, The RP suffers and the PvP hardcore seekers win yet again. This just doesn't make sense if this mod is still an RP mod.

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[Megaera]

Just tell me why a base should not be shooting at an enemy ship? All NPC bases do it.

Lorewise it makes no sense and it seems easy to exploit for siegers

POBs with weapon platforms were long time blamed for being space dominatiors.
They were used to even blockade jumpholes and attacking anyone not friendly
Hell they are still used to blockade manhattan docking ring for example
Basically POBs bring advantage mostly to lawfuls
While giving unlawfuls headache and disappointment

You talk like unlawfuls have no POBs.

Main issue I see here is that enemies (lawfuls too) can just camp pobs without any consequences.
If I read correctly, people can also move into a comfortable position when a siege is underways before the fight happens and then only that 1 ship is attacked.
What about support snubs (anti snub platform becomes useless now)?
What about repair ships?

I would rather have a base that kills anything that comes close to it when its being sieged than some selective triggers.
I can think of so many different ways to abuse this mechanic, I am sure most others can too.

Also. What is wrong with area of denial? I wouldnt want any enemies hanging out near my base.

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Matriarch Of the Gen'an Chrysanthemums - Ishikawa Aya
Gen'an Cell Information - Recruitment - Communications Network

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Megaera - Ishikawa Masako
Feedback - Data Storage - Birth of a goddess

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[LaWey]

Also. What is wrong with area of denial? I wouldnt want any enemies hanging out near my base.

Nothing, if not count that freelancer have privateer-kind gameplay, which is not really good with out-of-system-design area-denial. I.e. area denial bases simple ruin gameplay implied by system designer.

[Megaera]

Also. What is wrong with area of denial? I wouldnt want any enemies hanging out near my base.

Nothing, if not count that freelancer have privateer-kind gameplay, which is not really good with out-of-system-design area-denial. I.e. area denial bases simple ruin gameplay implied by system designer.

Then tackle that with rules. POBs arent allowed within 30k of mining sites either.
You can move all those manhatten bases away from the planet.
Doesnt really need destroying any POB protections.
Can't wait to just sit outside a police POB pirating the suppliers and the base just sitting there watching.

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Matriarch Of the Gen'an Chrysanthemums - Ishikawa Aya
Gen'an Cell Information - Recruitment - Communications Network

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Megaera - Ishikawa Masako
Feedback - Data Storage - Birth of a goddess

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