[Theoretical] Official Faction Challenge System

[Binski]

Official Faction Challenge System

Base to Challenge For Capture	Cost in Scientific Data
Border Station	1000 Scidata
Civilian Station	1500 Scidata
Shipyard	2500 Scidata
Jump Gate	2000 Scidata
Docking Ring/Mooring Fixture	3000 Scidata

Base to Challenge For Destruction	Cost in Scientific Data
Battleships	2000 Scidata
Military Stations	2500 Scidata

Location In Dispute	Designated HP Level
Border Station	500 Million HP
Civilian Station	800 Million HP
Shipyard	1 Billion 200 Million HP
Jump Gate	1 Billion HP
Docking Ring/Mooring Fixture	1 Billion 600 Million
Battleships	1 Billion HP
Military Stations	1 Billion HP

1. All Official Factions maintain the right to issue challenges for control of other faction (NPC) bases within, or bordering (50km adjacent to), their listed ZOI (this includes dockable planets/moons, border stations, civilian stations, military/police bases and dockable ships). An issued challenge will initiate a siege event that may result in the challenging faction capturing the base in contest. Stations qualifying for siege may be 'self destructed' by the owning faction only after maintaining control for 6 consecutive months, at a cost of 1000 units of Scientific Data. All challenges and their subsequent engagements are subject to ID Rules of Engagement.

2. All challenges are to be made as public declarations after first being submitted to staff as an OF Challenge Request for approval. Each challenge will only be accepted and started after the scidata has been confirmed and taken as payment. All submissions must include proof (time stamped screens) of the possession of the scidata and the name of the ship holding the data, name of initiating faction, faction being challenged (player or npc) and the base/object being targeted for siege.

3. Once submitted and approved, the station in question will be given an HP bar with limited HP. The challenging faction will have 7 days from implementation and declaration to reduce the object to 0 to claim control over the location. If that is achieved, the base IFF will change to that of the challenging faction and the base will again be made immortal. If that is not achieved the base status will return to normal and keep its current IFF. 24 hours may be required for an IFF change to take effect.

4. Counter challenges may come immediately. All challenges are subject to processing time. Only one challenge per location at a time, do not submit a challenge for a base until any active challenge is totally resolved.

5. Factions are limited to one active challenge at a time. Multiple OF's may form alliances to combine their challenges to assist one another. Challenges will be treated at a 'first come first serve' basis.

Bases Exempt from Siege: Capital Planets, Faction HQ Bases, INRP Hidden Bases

This is a slimmed down version of a faction 'battle system' that I propose for an Official Faction Challenge System. Basically just 5 extra rules added to the OF rights with a graph denoting values for challengeable locations. In theory, we would need a sub team within the Admins/GMs/Devs to operate the system, but it would keep the gears grinding and perpetuate a great deal of life/activity into the game by creating regular player driven events.

Staff would be needed to facilitate the changes of making bases siegeable (if not destroyable but at least able to show numeric damage like a wreck) upon the passing of a faction challenge request. Some will need to process the requests, confirm scidata needed is there (and take it), make the changes to the base (patch?) and observe. If the entire process could be completed within 48-72 hours to begin a siege event, that would make for a reasonable experience. A faction could submit a request and see it in-game within 3 days, and have 7 days to battle. If they succeed, last change would be to change that base's IFF. Technically they could also see a counter attack within another few days, depending on how well the other faction is doing.

The first questions would be, in theory, what HP to set for bases, which can also be graphed out so it will remain consistent and players will know what they have coming when they initiate a certain challenge.

The second question is about making these objects siegeable so that they take damage. The notion of trying to get repair ships to work on them to counter the attacks comes to mind as a possible way to slow down the progress of a battle. The main idea is that if a challenge fails, if a faction is active, popular, and determined enough, they may succeed after enough work. And if their gains are only temporary, and a base fluctuates in who controls it, it still keeps things interesting and creates long term potential goals. Bottom line, the more active a faction is, the less permanent a loss would be.

Other rules could be added to make certain bases exempt from challenge, such as capital worlds, or they could simply require many more things to achieve. All of the values for Scidata costs and object HP's are tentative, pending criticism. Some may feel they should be increased, and may need to be increased over time.

The last thing to include may be inrp 'hidden' bases, in which a system could be devised to establish what may be needed to be achieved to fairly 'discover' a hidden base so that an OF could siege them, and then either take over or destroy the base. That is an option at least.

Implications:

Some factions are dead, others that aren't dead have players but no purpose driving them. This will allow some factions to slim down others to fatten themselves up. In theory, at any time people could come along to a diminished faction and build it up to officialdom to try to counter challenge and regain lost bases/territory. Less popular factions may lose places to those with more steam, for a while. At the very least, I think this would breathe a great deal of life into the Houses as well, as they would become the main go-to for defending less populated factions that don't have OF's.

This may cause some factions whose bases fall into dispute to gain OF's. Others will be slightly consumed so other factions can build up their own territory. That will only be able to go so far, and we could simply place limits. Basically a faction could stretch its ZOI a base at a time, with some bases likely being impossible to capture due to player efforts, or being made exempt (I suggest Liners and other civilian ship bases be made exempt and each faction could have a 'core' base or bases that are off limits).

Yet many OF's would get the ability to gamble a bit to try to make some gains, slowly, and keep the story rolling at the same time. Each challenged faction, even if it has no OF, would still attract some attention for those looking to join the fight for the underdog, giving indies and freelancers some much needed opportunities. (House navies/police can offer bounties to bolster their defenses, POB's weapons platforms, etc.).

Each OF can only challenge for one location at a time in this version and it only relies on the already existing scidata system. The rate by which a faction could grow is basically going to be commensurate to how fast they can generate/buy the scidata, how much opposition they face in game and how much player power they can muster themselves. All things combined we can slowly let some factions make some bold moves to try to grow or strike out at their 'enemies' while also causing players to consume and interact in order to earn that ability.

The rest would require 'playing it by ear' and treating each situation as it comes. If a base changes hands it may eventually require changing bribes and missions, ships for sale, etc. If it looks like it may remain in dispute, those things could be wiped and left until stability could be achieved. Some of the traditional approach may be ditched but it would be to make a whole new system of opportunity possible so that there would be much more purpose found within factions, hopefully resulting in attracting/retaining more players.

Jump gates - Separately, to touch on the issue of jump gates, I think we could consider locking jump gates so a ship would not allow hostile ships to use them. That would mean you'd need to get your rep neutral/friendly to a jump gate owner to use it, or be stuck using the jumpholes. This has many implications yes, both gameplay and inrp wise. However this would make things much more interesting and give more value to fighting to change a jumpgate's IFF to make it passable to your desired faction (then requiring more RP for those wanting to use your jumpgate etc).

TL;DR - An easy to read graph and rule set to govern a system for factions to challenge for control of new bases via earnable siege events. This would be the result of adding to OF rights the right to issue a challenge for certain bases if they have enough Scidata to spend on the qualifying action. This will allow for player driven moves in an organized way that also stimulates activity and consumption between major events.

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The Further Exploits of Captain Antares (August 2015) │ (alt) JonasHudson
*Argo | Special Operative ID (Approved Request)* | Argo Compilation Video
################ *Proposed OF Challenge System* ################
############### The Book of Piracy (Piracy Tutorial) ###############
############### Binski Alamo (Youtube Channel) ###############

[Egon Bigmemes]

anything involving scidata is a hard pass from me

i dont want to sit down every day after work grinding scidata, and i know no one else in my faction wants to either

[Champ]

Sorry, no.

This is a different mod, or particularly a different server. It's totally do-able, but it is not Discovery. This idea has been pitched before, and I'm pretty sure even run as a server, if I'm not mistaken. Related: other servers should be made available in the server list without direct connection.

And particularly, nobody wants to grind for sci-data so that they can then grind out a siege.

Edit: There's a larger discussion to be had here about the balance between faction / player driven vs. centrally driven story and I am not here to have my head bit off about that.

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[Vitoniz30]

Binski, sorry, but no. All these features should be provided without weeks of worthless grinding and with less buearucracy. People, even official factions, are playing Freelancer, but not space version of Farming Simulator. You also proposed too many scidata to acquire OF challenge

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[Gardarik]

Easily abusable by factions with more peeps system. People just prefer factions they like and enjoy playing. Some factions will be left with no resistance whatsoever. So I can easily imagine Liberty Lawfuls just destroying all unlawful stations in Liberty like that, harming the gameplay. Add to this difference in time zones and scarce population, and it can lead to skewing the gameplay in a very bad direction. Hard no from me.

[Lemon]

I am extremely against this - Freelancer was a game designed as one when dying in game doesn't much matter sieges and PoBs are a great activity generators in the short run, they are fun first couple days If both sides participate.

But after that they are complete RP and entire house killers - where people start to win at all Costs,stop role-playing and get burned out and eventually the house dies out (Bretonia) in the long run.

And this is just player owned bases that aren't even canon and don't even matter much- I can't even imagine what would happen if important solars were to be sieged - it would eradicate any roleplay or any sense of fun from discovery where it is still left as people would try to win at all Costs.

[Piombo65]

Honestly I'm agree. But considering indeed the negative parts, this thing could be limited only to wild systems like Omicrons, Omegas, Taus and Sigmas and not involving the Houses or other mega-corporation (IMG, GMG...). This feature could be useful consequently to independent forces, maybe different "clans" (Like the old Freelancer groups, [FL-ER], {AFC}, or "Unofficial" authorities like Core, Auxo...). Since there will be something to do like attack/protect structures, there will be more activity and seriety to manage a faction and it could also avoid to create too many factions inviting players to join to already existent ones. RP? Sincerely it could also be a good idea to promote it, since the diplomacy that can come to avoid to be costantly attacked by factions.


Edit: To avoid boring grinding, the requirements could be changed in "Minimun number of RP posts to promote that" and "Minimum number of Events to promote that"

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{AC}= Auxilia Coalition - Recruitment - Register your mercenary company

[Major.]

No

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[Binski]

anything involving scidata is a hard pass from me

i dont want to sit down every day after work grinding scidata, and i know no one else in my faction wants to either

This statement literally proves what has killed this mod over the years. You don't want to do more, so you pressure to lower the bar to suit yourself. Apparently what you want is not what is best for the mod or anyone who is willing to put effort into it. I often wonder how people can complain about this place and then also suppress change, when its so obvious that this attitude you have is the status quo that keeps this place lacking.

Sorry, no.

This is a different mod, or particularly a different server. It's totally do-able, but it is not Discovery. This idea has been pitched before, and I'm pretty sure even run as a server, if I'm not mistaken. Related: other servers should be made available in the server list without direct connection.

And particularly, nobody wants to grind for sci-data so that they can then grind out a siege.

Edit: There's a larger discussion to be had here about the balance between faction / player driven vs. centrally driven story and I am not here to have my head bit off about that.

What is discovery? Seems even still to be a dying mod compared to what it could be. When you say 'nobody' wants to grind for scidata to earn a siege to change the map a bit, who is it you speak for again? That makes no sense to me. If its true, why not allow it for a while and see what happens? I'm willing to bet we'd see some new things happen finally. Why is that so feared? No one here has made the connection yet that this is what helped choke this place down in population?

Binski, sorry, but no. All these features should be provided without weeks of worthless grinding and with less buearucracy. People, even official factions, are playing Freelancer, but not space version of Farming Simulator. You also proposed too many scidata to acquire OF challenge

How do you provide that without some beurocracy? This system at least provides a fair and orderly structure to give people a framework to act within. So at least some change could happen within reason. I highly suggest to people do go back and fully read what I wrote about it. This is as simple as it gets and has been designed around the way we already play. There really isn't already a build up of scidata at the moment? Its easy enough. I'm willing to bet that after a few weeks or months, factions would build up the scidata to begin some challenges. There has got to be a bunch of places around the server that would stand to be solved by the application of such a system. Cash in the scidata, get a siege event on a station you want to try to grab. How fair the battle is and how balanced it is is another issue, I'm totally open to juggling the numbers to make it reasonable.

Easily abusable by factions with more peeps system. People just prefer factions they like and enjoy playing. Some factions will be left with no resistance whatsoever. So I can easily imagine Liberty Lawfuls just destroying all unlawful stations in Liberty like that, harming the gameplay. Add to this difference in time zones and scarce population, and it can lead to skewing the gameplay in a very bad direction. Hard no from me.

Yeah well things change. This system is set up to not be easily abusable. There is definitely still enough players to populate two sides in any battle here, and probably a few times over. Heaven forbid we then advertise to places and the old player base that we made some changes, added some options, and hope to attract players to bring up the numbers all around. Nothing will ever change significantly population wise unless we do something radical to stimulate some growth. How can you all just 'hard no' this probably without fully reading it all to spare yourselves some inconvenience? That is what is killing this place. It won't change until you all are willing to go out on a limb and take a chance on some change for once.

I am extremely against this - Freelancer was a game designed as one when dying in game doesn't much matter sieges and PoBs are a great activity generators in the short run, they are fun first couple days If both sides participate.

But after that they are complete RP and entire house killers - where people start to win at all Costs,stop role-playing and get burned out and eventually the house dies out (Bretonia) in the long run.

And this is just player owned bases that aren't even canon and don't even matter much- I can't even imagine what would happen if important solars were to be sieged - it would eradicate any roleplay or any sense of fun from discovery where it is still left as people would try to win at all Costs.

Again, its like clinging to an old way of thinking that somehow no one ever realized is exactly what keeps the place limited and falling behind. At the moment with no major story developments active, houses (bretonia) being left with no reason to be active, how is a projected continuation of the shrink worse than finally allowing some sieging of important solars? Roleplay is already mostly frozen,, I see a lack of fun because the place is suppressed by people that change the game to suit themselves and their factions. This system also essentially forces everyone to go through the game to make changes happen. I guarantee that if we made these changes it would spread and begin to contribute to keeping the place more lively. We either have competitions with some risk and allow more freedom or we keep the place neutralized to avoid theoretical butthurt. Its not worth it, without opening things up this place is kept way smaller than what it has to be. People really prefer that? Not willing to support any significant changes to try to see that change?

Honestly I'm agree. But considering indeed the negative parts, this thing could be limited only to wild systems like Omicrons, Omegas, Taus and Sigmas and not involving the Houses or other mega-corporation (IMG, GMG...). This feature could be useful consequently to independent forces, maybe different "clans" (Like the old Freelancer groups, [FL-ER], {AFC}, or "Unofficial" authorities like Core, Auxo...). Since there will be something to do like attack/protect structures, there will be more activity and seriety to manage a faction and it could also avoid to create too many factions inviting players to join to already existent ones. RP? Sincerely it could also be a good idea to promote it, since the diplomacy that can come to avoid to be costantly attacked by factions.


Edit: To avoid boring grinding, the requirements could be changed in "Minimun number of RP posts to promote that" and "Minimum number of Events to promote that"

Yeah my thinking was that in truth, factions would need to go to work again refreshing alliances and deals to negotiate not attacking places and watching each other's backs. This would bring in a cause for some actual diplomacy between factions with more real time consequences.

No

YES

EDIT: Thanks to whoever fixed the chart for me!

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The Further Exploits of Captain Antares (August 2015) │ (alt) JonasHudson
*Argo | Special Operative ID (Approved Request)* | Argo Compilation Video
################ *Proposed OF Challenge System* ################
############### The Book of Piracy (Piracy Tutorial) ###############
############### Binski Alamo (Youtube Channel) ###############

[Connor]

Honestly something like this could be made into a decent idea and potentially be worked into the contested territories system but certainly not in this state. I also think this could involve A LOT of work with very little gain and it'd most likely cause more issues then good.

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