[Theoretical] Official Faction Challenge System

[St.Denis]

EDIT: Thanks to whoever fixed the chart for me!

You are welcome.

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'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are'
Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person

[Greylock]

anything involving scidata is a hard pass from me

i dont want to sit down every day after work grinding scidata, and i know no one else in my faction wants to either

This statement literally proves what has killed this mod over the years. You don't want to do more, so you pressure to lower the bar to suit yourself. Apparently what you want is not what is best for the mod or anyone who is willing to put effort into it. I often wonder how people can complain about this place and then also suppress change, when its so obvious that this attitude you have is the status quo that keeps this place lacking.

Freelancer was, is, and always will be a space shooter sim. As said before, it's not Farming Simulator 2003. I've been a part of a siege event that changed the map. The first day or two were cool and good, after that, it was just people falling asleep in discord (Kalh snores) and shooting a stationary object. As much as I absolutely hate agreeing with Lemon on anything, he is indeed correct. It's okay in the short term, but in the long term, it's an event that lasts a day or two at most, and it takes weeks of nonstop grinding to prepare.

Some of us have these things called jobs. Or friends (Okay, I don't have friends, but my point stands). We can't spend 80 hours a week playing Freelancer. The little time that we can spend on it is something we want to be fun. Not a boring grind.

In short, leave things as they are. If the time comes that the discovery community's chapter comes to a close, let it. I'm sure we've all had good times, and bad times here. Don't beat a dead horse.

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[Hokan]

Honestly something like this could be made into a decent idea and potentially be worked into the contested territories system but certainly not in this state. I also think this could involve A LOT of work with very little gain and it'd most likely cause more issues then good.

This tbh.

The system would be unbalanced and would need a lot of patch work done to make it balanced to at least not have one group go on a rage and attack everything.

Some of the issues that come to mind are attacking bases belonging to factions that have next to no players, factions having access to larger ships than their opposing faction. And probably one of the more notable things that would happen is people ganging up on a faction they don't like.

I guess this could work for a select few PoB bases that aren't tied to the games story/lore that are scattered around the map. Capturing them could yield benefits for the OFs or give the faction access to cheaper codes or something.

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Censorship sponsored by - Forum Moderators

[Gardarik]

Easily abusable by factions with more peeps system. People just prefer factions they like and enjoy playing. Some factions will be left with no resistance whatsoever. So I can easily imagine Liberty Lawfuls just destroying all unlawful stations in Liberty like that, harming the gameplay. Add to this difference in time zones and scarce population, and it can lead to skewing the gameplay in a very bad direction. Hard no from me.

Yeah well things change. This system is set up to not be easily abusable. There is definitely still enough players to populate two sides in any battle here, and probably a few times over. Heaven forbid we then advertise to places and the old player base that we made some changes, added some options, and hope to attract players to bring up the numbers all around. Nothing will ever change significantly population wise unless we do something radical to stimulate some growth. How can you all just 'hard no' this probably without fully reading it all to spare yourselves some inconvenience? That is what is killing this place. It won't change until you all are willing to go out on a limb and take a chance on some change for once.

Your "genious" idea here is something that befits a strategy, not a space sim. It is impressive already that we can siege POBs on disco. If you want something like this - I suggest you play Stellaris. It also entails sophisticated economical, ideological, political, scientific and civilisational gameplay. Without those there is literally no point in such a system.

Moreover, you are telling that there are enough people to fuel both sides. Oh really? Firstly, look at the answers to your post. Secondly, study the recent dramas around POBs where defenders haven't even showed up because were either discouraged by the sheer numbers of the attackers, or simply couldn't log because of time zone difference. And the drama that ensued... And those were merely POBs that exist outside of RP. Another example: I don't play in Liberty and Bretonia for aesthetical reasons and will not likely play there whatever comes. There are people like me who prefer to play in Omicrons, Rheinland, you name it. Say, someone sieges a Gaian base in Bretonia, BAF shows up, no Gaians. Base wiped out, less bases for the Gaians, less missions, stations to store ships, everything. This will discourage the dwindling Gaian playerbase even more. Will I show up to help balance up the Gaians and help them? Nope, bcs I don't play in Bretonia. And won't.

In addition, think of it from devs perspective. It requires some time invested in the matter. A lot of time, and regularly. Devs are same people as we are with their RL and are not paid for whatever is happening here. Do you think they will be very motivated to monitor all the time what is going on with this sieges?

All in all, both hands down and still a hard no. Discovery Freelancer lost playerbase not because of lack of wargaming with sieges, but mostly because the game is just old. "Visionary" ideas like this will most likely drive those few left here away while not attracting anyone. Even in hypothetic scenario where a few people do actually come for this, they will quickly lose interest bcs there are so much better games offering this kind of gamepaly than clunky freelancer.

[Lemon]

Again, its like clinging to an old way of thinking that somehow no one ever realized is exactly what keeps the place limited and falling behind. At the moment with no major story developments active, houses (bretonia) being left with no reason to be active, how is a projected continuation of the shrink worse than finally allowing some sieging of important solars? Roleplay is already mostly frozen,, I see a lack of fun because the place is suppressed by people that change the game to suit themselves and their factions. This system also essentially forces everyone to go through the game to make changes happen. I guarantee that if we made these changes it would spread and begin to contribute to keeping the place more lively. We either have competitions with some risk and allow more freedom or we keep the place neutralized to avoid theoretical butthurt. Its not worth it, without opening things up this place is kept way smaller than what it has to be. People really prefer that? Not willing to support any significant changes to try to see that change?

I am a new wave of players actually- love the game, you often see me ignoring and poking at the "old way" of thinking and vets that live in the past and often am getting into trouble for it You can call me many things, but someone who doesn't have ideas that actively generate in-game activity would be the last thing even those that dislike my style the most would call me.

You can take the case study of Bretonia - I talked to many people, and apparently years ago before the wave of sieges it was a house where opposing factions helped each other, logged the other side often to keep sides balanced, and there both wasn't much hatred and people kept logging just because.

Sieges changed that, people hate each other, they win at all costs, and besides sieges the activity is non-existent. We tried to work on that, got both sides together even got Bretonia to boldly goto get swarmed in Coalition system, and Coalition Counter-raided, some of their players logging BAF even to balance sides! There was a dialogue started, potential for mutual events etc. Until a base was put up in Dublin too close to mining field that had to be sieged. It started a wave of sieges. People Logged for them Started hating each other again, not talking. Eventually, they burned out. Even a WP base on top a solar nobody wants to go against, or log Bretonia for that matter after that short burst of activity.

Same happened in Liberty - Colorado siege was a short burst of activity, but saw people get burned out, the at least quantity of RP (in B4 subjective people say liberty RP doesn't count) went down after that, people started logging just one side instead of balancing...

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This idea can be good but Not for existing important solars. In terms of events S-17 is a clear example, where people cancerously tried hard so much one faction got reported and sanctioned right out of officialdom.

You shouldn't go for a situation where people Lose something but where they can only Gain - I know GMs are planning something like this for the weekend, this could be new little inconsequential PoB solars, extra rewards etc.

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Again this is not coming from someone who lives in the past, but from a new and currently active player who learned the hard way about what sieging things that people care about does.

[Binski]

Easily abusable by factions with more peeps system. People just prefer factions they like and enjoy playing. Some factions will be left with no resistance whatsoever. So I can easily imagine Liberty Lawfuls just destroying all unlawful stations in Liberty like that, harming the gameplay. Add to this difference in time zones and scarce population, and it can lead to skewing the gameplay in a very bad direction. Hard no from me.

Yeah well things change. This system is set up to not be easily abusable. There is definitely still enough players to populate two sides in any battle here, and probably a few times over. Heaven forbid we then advertise to places and the old player base that we made some changes, added some options, and hope to attract players to bring up the numbers all around. Nothing will ever change significantly population wise unless we do something radical to stimulate some growth. How can you all just 'hard no' this probably without fully reading it all to spare yourselves some inconvenience? That is what is killing this place. It won't change until you all are willing to go out on a limb and take a chance on some change for once.

Your "genious" idea here is something that befits a strategy, not a space sim. It is impressive already that we can siege POBs on disco. If you want something like this - I suggest you play Stellaris. It also entails sophisticated economical, ideological, political, scientific and civilisational gameplay. Without those there is literally no point in such a system.

Moreover, you are telling that there are enough people to fuel both sides. Oh really? Firstly, look at the answers to your post. Secondly, study the recent dramas around POBs where defenders haven't even showed up because were either discouraged by the sheer numbers of the attackers, or simply couldn't log because of time zone difference. And the drama that ensued... And those were merely POBs that exist outside of RP. Another example: I don't play in Liberty and Bretonia for aesthetical reasons and will not likely play there whatever comes. There are people like me who prefer to play in Omicrons, Rheinland, you name it. Say, someone sieges a Gaian base in Bretonia, BAF shows up, no Gaians. Base wiped out, less bases for the Gaians, less missions, stations to store ships, everything. This will discourage the dwindling Gaian playerbase even more. Will I show up to help balance up the Gaians and help them? Nope, bcs I don't play in Bretonia. And won't.

In addition, think of it from devs perspective. It requires some time invested in the matter. A lot of time, and regularly. Devs are same people as we are with their RL and are not paid for whatever is happening here. Do you think they will be very motivated to monitor all the time what is going on with this sieges?

All in all, both hands down and still a hard no. Discovery Freelancer lost playerbase not because of lack of wargaming with sieges, but mostly because the game is just old. "Visionary" ideas like this will most likely drive those few left here away while not attracting anyone. Even in hypothetic scenario where a few people do actually come for this, they will quickly lose interest bcs there are so much better games offering this kind of gamepaly than clunky freelancer.

And I still think you're crazy to advocate against it like we really have anything to lose by trying. Its already been demonstrated it can physically be done its just a matter of Admins/GM's wanting to get into the routine of keeping up on making the requests happen. This big work would have a big return I think.

We already apply strategy in concept and in small ways in pvp, so why not go a bit further? What this system says is, there is a way for staff members to focus their efforts on keeping the ball rolling for players. Again, I say lets try it and see how horrible it gets.

And remember people, you can always BUY scidata from miners and dealers. If your faction is in need, hit the market! If you dont want to mine data, and you trade anyways, and you are willing to sink a few hundred mil into your faction every so often, why not pool your funds, invest in scidata, and try to capture a nearby station?

Also, think of potential inrp opportunities. Your faction could only briefly 'capture' a shipyard, perhaps that could be grounds to claim you gained the designs of ships from that base? So if they lose control they might be able to justify use of those ships on their ID. Another earnable benefit that makes good incentive to join an OF. Thats worth grinding for some scidata or grinding to save credits to buy some for that chance.

No offense but only prioritizing around the working population kills the server to save those who can't be on as often. If we change things to bring up population we can fill the gaps in demand for more players to participate. People used to have to take their chances in a 24/7 server.

[Decktare]

Answer for yourself, are you ready to lose all those bases that you love? This will be the answer to your proposal.
You know, there are a lot of people who don't really love you. Will the proposed system turn against you?

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[Binski]

Answer for yourself, are you ready to lose all those bases that you love? This will be the answer to your proposal.
You know, there are a lot of people who don't really love you. Will the proposed system turn against you?

At costs of thousands of scidata per attempt, it would take months for any significant change to unfold.

And maybe it will, but it will be fair. I can accept losing if its fair, it still makes for a fine story inrp. It jusy makes sense if there's an actual battle where something was on the line, no need to worry about balancing sides since sometimes thats the way it goes, and you need to fight to protect something anyways. I believe people can still have fun while actually having something to try for. Keeping it the way it is means temp logging for 'fun' yet its an RP server?

At least people would need to go through all they do to get a faction official, get ships, RP to get the sicdata, grind to buy it, or mine it themselves, which generates all sorts of trade and opprotunity to trade with purpose. People usually like that, and an important issue just might get you online. I'm sorry if people fear player conflicts but that really can't be a reason to keep the server lobotomized any longer. Players from every sport compete against each other on teams, that sometimes switch teams and yet they just accept it and deal. We can handle it here. With enough heads up each siege would either be a formality, or be bound to be a good big fight that could be reoccuring for a while.

[darkwind]

No. It is more or less deleting content. even more than NEMPing, free and uncontrolled base destructions.



Base capturing is partially interesting though.

[Couden]

At costs of thousands of scidata per attempt, it would take months for any significant change to unfold.

One Week

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