Why does the SHF got nerfed heavily?

[Lusitano]

the SHF were nerf because there was too many crying players that lost to SHF, even despite their huge size and low turning, that is why they nerf it. only that becuase there is soo many things to do here, and devs decide to waste their real life free time, nerfing SHF instead of solving several problems. don't get me wrong, i apreciate that people waste their spare time for the mod, but at least they could do something usefull and not ruin something.

[Traxit]

SHFs were cancer to deal with. GB DPS output, a lot of HP, capable to replace bombers in some situations. Now they are noob-friendly fighters: fatter, slower, more damage and powercore than VHFs, but they're not complete cancer as they have been before rework. Lord bless balance devs

This is the gist of it.

You people need to curb your misconceptions about this being a nerf. It's a total redesign that makes the shipclass an actual fighter, and not a bomber-fighter hybrid with more health than a heavy bomber.

---

The best Video Game OST
Just Got Better

[Emperor Tekagi]

You people need to curb your misconceptions about this being a nerf. It's a total redesign that makes the shipclass an actual fighter, and not a bomber-fighter hybrid with more health than a heavy bomber.

This. SHFs prior to the change were GB dps, bullet sponges with up to light GB nanobot/bats count. Of course they died easily to snacs or mine spam, though this two methods being the only effective counter proved the old SHFs were an overall flawed concept. A somewhat decent snub player jumping into a SHF could suddenly take on 3-4 equally decent VHFs and kill at least 2 without any issues.

Some SHFs were utterly useless, others broken. This redesign effectively makes SHFs more unique and interesting. Their stats are subject to tweaks but you can already see the roles given to some of them. They're niche, they used to be niche and that's fine.

Claymore being a "light SHF" but having the FWG is a concept taking into field testing so to speak. It might stay unique, it might not. Effectively that depends on if we get a model with similar characteristics ever again.

Try them out and enjoy them, like really. After a few hotfixes tweaking them, I expect new SHFs to be competitive enough while offering their own unique playstyle. One that does not rely on being a total bullet sponge with idiotic nanobot count.

[Lemon]

It's pretty much like flying a light-medium freighter in normal view I do hope the unique guns will be eventually added to the rest of the class

[James Greed]

270 bots bats, a cau 7, a shield that came back every 8 seconds. 2 bomber interceptor guns while still having 5-6 regular VHF guns. A bomber torpedo. Basically, it was a better bomber with a jam packed kit. Was it nice to drive at gunboats with it? Yeah. Was it absolute agony for anyone to shoot it? Also yeah.

---

Greedback

[Haste]

SHFs were a problem class. Their sheer HP made them do things you would realistically not want ships with 200 thrust speed to do: take a fat dump on medium and light gunboats, restock hellfires, repeat. At the same time, their main strategy against fighter opponents was to test their patience - unless they were an Anzu, in which case they just owned every ship in the game - for long enough to make them choose to lose the fight out of sheer desperation.

Years and years of repeated nanobot buffs made them one-dimensional. Their only trait was their ludicrous, inflated HP pool. Meanwhile, SNACs existed that literally one-shot them through that HP pool no problem, meaning their entire existence relied on your opponents not fielding a single bomber. I don't think that kind of binary "balance" is something we should aim for. Ships being more or less effective against specific other classes of ships is fine, but being completely unplayable against one class and bonkers overpowered against another isn't ideal.

When we reworked them, our goal was to make them just small and agile enough to actually avoid fire, while still having a generous amount of hitpoints, powercore and weapons to be easy to manage for newer players. The loss of bomber guns was done so that future bomber changes could be made without breaking the SHF class (again) in the process. It also pushed them away from being "better bombers" and towards the class their name implies they are: fighters.

We have probably underestimated the stats we could reasonably give them in their first balance iteration, and are already looking to buff at the very least the weaker SHFs (the Magpie and Anzu come to mind). The current numbers aren't final and our goal is never to take away toys from our players.

---

[NonSequitor]

I think removing the ability to equip bomber weapons would have been sufficient nerf - since, after all, they are fighters and not bombers.
The current SHF concept is rather lackluster - a jack of no trades in particular nor a master of any. Just an over-sized VHF.
I predict a renaissance of cap 8, code weapon-equipped freighter usage.
A pity too, since the new SHF models are gorgeous.

[Lemon]

Yeah agreed - they play like a freighter without the turret view or CAU option
I hope the special guns will be a success and be rolled out to all SHFs

[Deluxe]

the SHF were nerf because there was too many crying players that lost to SHF, even despite their huge size and low turning, that is why they nerf it. only that becuase there is soo many things to do here, and devs decide to waste their real life free time, nerfing SHF instead of solving several problems. don't get me wrong, i apreciate that people waste their spare time for the mod, but at least they could do something usefull and not ruin something.

Exactly my thought about it. Someone in a VHF/HF who knows how to fly could outclass the shf pretty easily, cause it was slow, big and hell of a mine magnet. Playing in a group I always prefer a vhf/hf over a shf - but to play alone it was by far the best solution - Competable against Bomber/Fighters and could take on bigger ships - but always outclassed if the opponent knew what he does in his ship. Now there is no ship that suits to that role anymore. On top of that the best solo Snub remaining (Thor) is nerfed for Pirate ID.

I admit it had too much of a hull (never used more than CAU4 on it, so thats not a big deal in that matter) and could needed less Nanos/Batts. But now there is absolutly no reason to use it anymore. Take a battlefrighter, better in all manners and can use turret view.

SHFs were cancer to deal with. GB DPS output, a lot of HP, capable to replace bombers in some situations. Now they are noob-friendly fighters: fatter, slower, more damage and powercore than VHFs, but they're not complete cancer as they have been before rework. Lord bless balance devs

This is the gist of it.

You people need to curb your misconceptions about this being a nerf. It's a total redesign that makes the shipclass an actual fighter, and not a bomber-fighter hybrid with more health than a heavy bomber.

That was the actual thought behind that ship a hybrid between bomber and fighter - otherwise you could just delte that shipclass, cause it has no purpose anymore.

SHFs were a problem class. Their sheer HP made them do things you would realistically not want ships with 200 thrust speed to do: take a fat dump on medium and light gunboats, restock hellfires, repeat. At the same time, their main strategy against fighter opponents was to test their patience - unless they were an Anzu, in which case they just owned every ship in the game - for long enough to make them choose to lose the fight out of sheer desperation.

Years and years of repeated nanobot buffs made them one-dimensional. Their only trait was their ludicrous, inflated HP pool. Meanwhile, SNACs existed that literally one-shot them through that HP pool no problem, meaning their entire existence relied on your opponents not fielding a single bomber. I don't think that kind of binary "balance" is something we should aim for. Ships being more or less effective against specific other classes of ships is fine, but being completely unplayable against one class and bonkers overpowered against another isn't ideal.

When we reworked them, our goal was to make them just small and agile enough to actually avoid fire, while still having a generous amount of hitpoints, powercore and weapons to be easy to manage for newer players. The loss of bomber guns was done so that future bomber changes could be made without breaking the SHF class (again) in the process. It also pushed them away from being "better bombers" and towards the class their name implies they are: fighters.

We have probably underestimated the stats we could reasonably give them in their first balance iteration, and are already looking to buff at the very least the weaker SHFs (the Magpie and Anzu come to mind). The current numbers aren't final and our goal is never to take away toys from our players.

Thanks for the answer! I understand the tought behind it, but in my opinion as you rebalanced the shf, you could just have took them out of the game. There werent the best choice for specific roles before and now lost their eligibility as a good all around ship. If you are testing it next time, set it against a battle frighter and you will see what I mean.

[Lusitano]

i read some comments and and remind me of used car salesmen I’ve met. the cars maybe crap but they say that they are the best machines on the market at the best price.

the balance notes reminded me of a situation I had with a friend I had, he asked me to go see a car that one cousin or something like that ... it was long ago and i don't remember all details, but he asked me to go see that car, he already took a look and was all fine but he wanted my opinion. i remember it was a bmw 318tds compact, and even before i got colose the car i started to see problems. different shades of color, tyres all ruinend and from a brand that i never heard, then brake discs in terrible conditions. despite the owner said the car never had an accident when i opened the hood i saw why those different shades of color, despite the owner continued to swear the car never had an accident, one engine mount was ruined, and the hooses were in bad condition, and all that just looking. the interior was not bad, but when he started the motor, a terrible black smoke camed for the exaust and could notice also some white/blue smoke and the turbo wasmaking a bit noise. In other words the car was in bad condition, i advised not to buy. The owner was very angry and didn't reacted well ... i'm a patient man but i have my limits, but all ok. i left before i brake something. few days later i saw that friend with that car, very happy saying that i was wrong, the car was fine and was a great buy. not even 3 month he took the car for the inspection. tuv for the germans or mot for the brits, and failed completly, with all defaults i said and few more. of course i laught a lot, and he wanted me to fix it and form free, like a good friend. i said no way and i "lost a friend". few months later i saw it with another car

what i whant to say is ... who ever did this balance made a complet mess and ruined one entire class of ships making it useless, but want us to think it was a good job and the ships are great to use ... right!! maybe some inocents may belive! even Haste is adminting that they did crap. the ships are still big, the osprey, the one i know the best is still huge, despite the 15% reduction, still slow turning despite the incresse of 0.7 degree (LOLOLOL) , and the rest of stats are pathetic in comparison with the previous! like someone said, i could agree the removal of the bomber weapons, but the rest was a simple pathetic waste of time, or maybe some kind of way to calm down all the players that were crying. so many stuff to fix and .. forget it! never mind. this is so stupid that don't deserve wasting more time with this.