Patch When? #3 - Dev Diary - Economic Reform™

[Demonic]

Now this... this looks helluva interesting.

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[TheKusari]

For those people who do not wish to work the Hydroponics Bay to generate Food and Oxygen, is the current upkeep system for PoBs (200 crew, 400 FOW / 24 hours) being changed or remaining the same?

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[Lucien Sarti]

can you please keep some sort of profitable commodity that will be in place of Scrap in texas - there's a big RP project on, it's a popular ore

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[jammi]

For those people who do not wish to work the Hydroponics Bay to generate Food and Oxygen, is the current upkeep system for PoBs (200 crew, 400 FOW / 24 hours) being changed or remaining the same?

Correct, upkeep remains the same - you'll just have more tools to decide how to meet it.

EDIT:

On 10k ore - bear in mind that ore volume is 2, meaning 10k post-patch is broadly equivalent to 20k now. The drop cap is also per player, so joint mining ops aren't penalised. That said, I'm sure Haste and Aingar will be keeping an eye on how it's working and will be able to revise the exact number as needed.

Base relocation - honestly I don't know, but I'll raise the question find out how that's currently being looked at.

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[Sombs]

I hope, if the bases get relocated, that the relocations are sensible and not a disaster like with Nichols Trading Center, which got moved from Gran Canaria's orbit to Omicron Theta without any sense.

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[Lemon]

For those people who do not wish to work the Hydroponics Bay to generate Food and Oxygen, is the current upkeep system for PoBs (200 crew, 400 FOW / 24 hours) being changed or remaining the same?

Correct, upkeep remains the same - you'll just have more tools to decide how to meet it.

EDIT:

On 10k ore - bear in mind that ore volume is 2, meaning 10k post-patch is broadly equivalent to 20k now. The drop cap is also per player, so joint mining ops aren't penalised. That said, I'm sure Haste and Aingar will be keeping an eye on how it's working and will be able to revise the exact number as needed.

Base relocation - honestly I don't know, but I'll raise the question find out how that's currently being looked at.

Well Bases have always been relocated with system changes for free - I assume economy changes for ore bases should be treated the same

[Demonic]

So, if I understend the numbers properly, Hydroponics 1 will convert 1000 water into 300 food and 300 O2 - so for 1000units of delivered cargo I'll get 600 units of supplies, where as if I deliver the resources directly, I'll get 300 food, 300 O2 and 400 water (which isn't getting eaten by the Hydroponics). I fail to see how hydroponics is supposed to be a better choice than just hauling the supplies. Even with the production bonus it's a net loss, because you get 600 units of supplies out of 850 units of delivered cargo. Is there something I'm missing?

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[jammi]

So, if I understend the numbers properly, Hydroponics 1 will convert 1000 water into 300 food and 300 O2 - so for 1000units of delivered cargo I'll get 600 units of supplies, where as if I deliver the resources directly, I'll get 300 food, 300 O2 and 400 water (which isn't getting eaten by the Hydroponics). I fail to see how hydroponics is supposed to be a better choice than just hauling the supplies. Even with the production bonus it's a net loss, because you get 600 units of supplies out of 850 units of delivered cargo. Is there something I'm missing?

Correct, Hydroponics are less efficient than directly delivering the commodities. These are primarily intended to assist remote bases where you may need to fly a long way or pay much more vs mining the water yourself.

This is likely to be most useful if you're out in the deep Omicrons or somewhere like that, and least useful if you're in or near house space where you'll likely have cheap access to all three inputs and anyway.

These figures are also fairly provisional. I've come up with them through theorycrafting, but if the theory doesn't work out in practice, we can always revise upwards. Community feedback will make a lot of difference there.

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[Demonic]

So, if I understend the numbers properly, Hydroponics 1 will convert 1000 water into 300 food and 300 O2 - so for 1000units of delivered cargo I'll get 600 units of supplies, where as if I deliver the resources directly, I'll get 300 food, 300 O2 and 400 water (which isn't getting eaten by the Hydroponics). I fail to see how hydroponics is supposed to be a better choice than just hauling the supplies. Even with the production bonus it's a net loss, because you get 600 units of supplies out of 850 units of delivered cargo. Is there something I'm missing?

Correct, Hydroponics are less efficient than directly delivering the commodities. These are primarily intended to assist remote bases where you may need to fly a long way or pay much more vs mining the water yourself.

This is likely to be most useful if you're out in the deep Omicrons or somewhere like that, and least useful if you're in or near house space where you'll likely have cheap access to all three inputs and anyway.

Yeah, I still don't see it. Maybe for extremely deep space it might have some use, but then again, how often do those kinds of system actually have an ice / scrap field to mine?

/edit
Only thing that comes to mind is a monetary value. Not sure about the exact prices but I would understand using it if 1 000 of water is cheaper than 300 food and o2, but even then I don't think it will be much.

/edit2
Ok, maybe I am too sceptical. This would require some testing, especially regarding the speed of mining. It could be faster time wise, if the mining time is sufficiently fast...

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[Haste]

Fixed a small error in the OP: we're not killing off dropped cargo over 10 'packets', it's 25, a substantially higher amount. In addition we're likely configuring the deployable container to drop 2,500 volume worth of ore or other mineable at a time, so you'll be able to have 62500 units of cargo lying around. That should be sufficient, I reckon.

One of the important aspects of Hydroponics and their usefulness is that food, water & oxygen are treated as regular, fully profitable commodities in the new economy, meaning they can get very pricey in remote areas. Hydroponics will allow you to save a decent chunk of money. Mineable ice fields are probably more common than you think, they're just not currently enabled server-side. It's more of a factor for people to play with when choosing building locations, as now you can choose to build a base near an ice field and rely on it for crew supplies, without having to worry about travel distances for those commodities.

How many Deployable Mining Containers can one carry/deploy at one time?

One per player. If you leave the system you deployed it in, or log off, it'll self-destruct.

Will you allow PoB relocations based on these

Within reason, yes. Someone suddenly deciding their base previously planted firmly next to a capital planet should instead be next to an ice & scrap field for easy access shouldn't expect to get their request granted, but if system (or in this case, game systems) changes significantly negatively affect a PoB (for example: the ore field it was built next to is gone) then yes I believe we should work with the owners to find them a new spot.

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