(10-31-2023, 12:55 AM)Chenzo- Wrote: Without lanes the barge is basically useless.
Say it takes you 3 hours to ship cardamine from Malta to Manhattan, 30k in cargo, which isn't *too* far off the mark, it may be a little shorter tbh, iirc our barge convoy during the event took more like 2 hours. But we'll go with 3, to be conservative.
That's still an hour *less* than it would take you do to the same round trip 6 times in a 5ker, which is a 40 minute round trip at its absolute fastest, 240 minutes total in a utopian world where you somehow smash that run every time. I'm sorry but the math on this statement does not check out.
"But what about interception?" Hire an escort. You also have battlecruiser levels of hull and battlecruiser turrets.
That trip took 5+ hours one way. Also 12 escorts.
On event level bonus.
If you’re going to reason, use truth.
The same 5 hours can have 12 runs done each way in a 5k.
(10-31-2023, 03:38 AM)Eichy Bumm Wrote: OK, lets do the maths. It takes 15000 units of Gold Ore to fill a barge. New London buys it for 30sc/unit. That is 450000 new SC (45 million old SC). A mining ship used to get about 2000 (20)sc/unit and for 6x 5000k transports = 20 x 15000 - 30 million old Sirus credits or 300k new SC. This leaves just 10 million (100k today to transport and make a profit on.
There is no money in mining it seems either for the miner operator or the transport pilot.
Canary Wharf is paying 45 credits per unit for Gold Ore.
That is 4,500 old SC. A very good return! Do you sell refined Gold?
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(10-31-2023, 02:14 AM)Dragomar Wrote: Try and put BC weapons on a Barge. The core drains in like 2 seconds. Either buff cruise speed, return TL use, or buff powercore so it can actually somewhat defend itself like its infocard says it should. Or give refunds.
Not to mention that the guns on a barge are so far apart that there is no hope of actually hitting anything because their aiming points are nowhere near each other. Even missiles fail to track and just fire in ballistic fashion straight out. You literally cannot hit anything, just spray and pray.
And I agree that the no TL usage would be fine if the cruise speed were better. I don't know if it's possible, but even just making it able to use TL's if it was formed on another ship jumping would be more of a valid nerf IMO.
With respect to Refunds, we should just be able to sell the Barge in Conn for the buying price if we don't want to use it as is.
But personally, I'm hoping for a reduction on the nerf severity and just some rules regarding it's allowable usage instead.
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(10-31-2023, 03:38 AM)Eichy Bumm Wrote: OK, lets do the maths. It takes 15000 units of Gold Ore to fill a barge. New London buys it for 30sc/unit. That is 450000 new SC (45 million old SC). A mining ship used to get about 2000 (20)sc/unit and for 6x 5000k transports = 20 x 15000 - 30 million old Sirus credits or 300k new SC. This leaves just 10 million (100k today to transport and make a profit on.
There is no money in mining it seems either for the miner operator or the transport pilot.
Canary Wharf is paying 45 credits per unit for Gold Ore.
That is 4,500 old SC. A very good return! Do you sell refined Gold?
How is that a good return when the cargo size for Ores has doubled ? It's half of the value you quoted in "old" economy. I remember the Wharf used to pay upwards to 3000 SC per mined unit of ore ? And I'm not sure but I think the mining speed was also lowered with less mining guns / turrets ? In essence, miners got the shaft with the new patch, and I don't mean the mining shaft
(10-31-2023, 11:08 PM)LuckyOne Wrote: How is that a good return when the cargo size for Ores has doubled ? It's half of the value you quoted in "old" economy. I remember the Wharf used to pay upwards to 3000 SC per mined unit of ore ? And I'm not sure but I think the mining speed was also lowered with less mining guns / turrets ? In essence, miners got the shaft with the new patch, and I don't mean the mining shaft
It is better than Planet New London is paying (30 credits) and better than Trafalgar is paying (42).
Mining/selling the ore was the way to make credits in the old system.
Now it is selling the Refined Goods (HRCs), but the HRCs need someone to build and supply a Refinery to lower the NPC prices. PNL sells Gold for 126 a unit, CWS sells it for 100.
'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are' Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person
(10-31-2023, 11:08 PM)LuckyOne Wrote: How is that a good return when the cargo size for Ores has doubled ? It's half of the value you quoted in "old" economy. I remember the Wharf used to pay upwards to 3000 SC per mined unit of ore ? And I'm not sure but I think the mining speed was also lowered with less mining guns / turrets ? In essence, miners got the shaft with the new patch, and I don't mean the mining shaft
You are dead right! My apologies, I did not factor that in. I agree with you now, you mentioned it. This makes it more problematic for certain getting good miners on the job. They would be better paid working in the factories where it is safer, better pay, and less chance of being attacked.
(10-31-2023, 02:49 AM)Eichy Bumm Wrote: Just a curiosity. Can a mining ship load a barge with ore by selecting the barge and then mining? Or has that changed?
I can't imagine why that would have changed & haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.
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(10-31-2023, 12:55 AM)Chenzo- Wrote: Without lanes the barge is basically useless.
Say it takes you 3 hours to ship cardamine from Malta to Manhattan, 30k in cargo, which isn't *too* far off the mark, it may be a little shorter tbh, iirc our barge convoy during the event took more like 2 hours. But we'll go with 3, to be conservative.
That's still an hour *less* than it would take you do to the same round trip 6 times in a 5ker, which is a 40 minute round trip at its absolute fastest, 240 minutes total in a utopian world where you somehow smash that run every time. I'm sorry but the math on this statement does not check out.
"But what about interception?" Hire an escort. You also have battlecruiser levels of hull and battlecruiser turrets.
That trip took 5+ hours one way. Also 12 escorts.
On event level bonus.
If you’re going to reason, use truth.
The same 5 hours can have 12 runs done each way in a 5k.
ah, I missed this when it was posted. My bad. My recording was 1 hour 48 minutes long, I missed the half hour at the start and I died in colorado. I sincerely doubt Colorado and New York took three hours. I'm sorry but I do not know what you're referring to lol
Edit: Bear in mind there was also a solid 20 minute fight with DTR in Theta, too.
Edit 2: My DSace shows that I logged at about 19:05pm. This was just before/at the beginning of the fight in Theta, I died at 21:45 in Colorado, so my main recording started very late. Bear in mind the detours to fight LN and DTR, the last blue of the DTR fight was 20 minutes after I logged, and yes, my original 3ish hour statement/estimate was correct. I can post *the entire* log here if you really want, but if you're going to accuse someone of not telling the truth, you'd better make damn sure you're right lol. This is also demonstrating the barge in its probably worst current use case of extreme long hauling when there are mostly lanes as an alternative. There are a plethora of other options such as base supplying that have been brought up in this thread.
Also, 12 cardamine runs cannot be done in 5 hours, I did 38 runs during the event in a 4.3ker and I was logged overall for almost two days, I would love to know what route you're using for this since I only got intercepted a grand total of ~four times.
Edit 3: Also, the barge convoy used a route 2 jumps longer than the actual optimal route for the event (Alpha -> Tau 37 -> Tau 23 -> Tau 31 -> Leeds -> Magellan -> California -> New York -> Pennsylvania) so you can cut off even more time compared to the barge convoy, especially given the California jump gate is a lot closer to the Penn gate than the Colorado one is.
tl;dr, if you're going to debate this, please stop pulling numbers out of thin air and actually check/back up your statements.
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