OFLs lose nothing, because for them nothing changes. They can continue to lead the factions, which is their main duty. And it should be. Very few people have the drive to lead a faction and manage government on good quality terms.
It's community that is stuck with slower government responses (if anyone will bother at this stage to begin with) because all the people who might not be OFL but are proactive in governments are stuck behind multiple layers of supervision.
I think you keep pushing for this, because you are still hurt that you (and/or your factions) weren't invited the moment you desired it. But look at how it slowed down responses, where it takes around 48 hours for staff to notice simple posts that they should approve. It's their fault that they introduced the system which slows down roleplay to insufferable levels.
And when they approve the post, it doesn't bump the thread to New Posts or Today's Posts, because the timestamp of a post is X days old.
Do you think that OFLs are very interested in discussing and voting stuff in "unofficial government chats", only to be required to copy it and revote it to "official government chats" and then "poke staff member to approve roleplay post". How do you not see as unreasonable process that puts stress OFLs?
Yeah tbh I am struggling with that one too - the shadow gov discord really has no power in the end, the real voting and discussions come in the official discord - it really is pointless to vote something in as then you have to both revote, and often also discuss with stuff what is reasonable and lore friendly - and then you'd need to bring it back, revote again and bring it to staff again for more voting and discussion.
It's probably better if the shadow gov is just a place/l for brainstorming/discussion of factions not represented without voting tbh
Or you know, have one impartial staff member as observer in "unofficial government chat" and in case there is fishy business, stop the process in order for staff to intervene only when necessary.
Imagine that, you get to slightly supervise the governments and are not impeding their process. Noone loses.
Not enough, I have like 5 different staff members with active input in Gal Gov, it's about coordination with them too. It's not about supervision and being a whip per se, it's about actively working together, being on the same page etc.
I get the running of factions by 1iCs but in the end, it doesn't take that much work. Especially if you adjust to the new system. E.g. moving bounties to faction accounts, do the same with most roleplay - let the players and their characters do it, gov just have the last say etc. With the licenses you mentioned - Gallia has to have the license confirmed by gov acc that is vetted. But anyone in Gallia can roleplay comment, vouch, lobby, exchange RP with the applicant etc. Nobody is stopping you from letting factions have their stance, give recommendations - that stuff ain't vetted. Only the final gov say is - this just needs some tweaks really and getting used to.
And for christ, staff need to get a working bot that pings them despite posts being initially hidden or we will keep pinging them to death
Quote:Each license request will be open to Gallic Law Enforcement, Corporations and Unione Corse for recommendations, concerns, input and approval where one is required.
This is a way to go IMO - you can have back-and-forth, actual roleplay in the thread going on. None of it is binding, but cuts the time between responses + can affect the license. And then Gov just make the final decision based on that that gets approved by staff.
If Libgov (or the Republic of Liberty account, I should say, because it's clearly being used by people who are not in the government) makes posts they refuse to tell us about because they have some kind of pathological aversion to communicating with staff, they can't go all surprised pikachu when they aren't approved because nobody knows about them.
(11-06-2023, 11:12 AM)Karst Wrote: If Libgov (or the Republic of Liberty account, I should say, because it's clearly being used by people who are not in the government) makes posts they refuse to tell us about because they have some kind of pathological aversion to communicating with staff, they can't go all surprised pikachu when they aren't approved because nobody knows about them.
Just tell us. It's really not hard.
It should not be hard to be competent staff but it's like you are not even trying.
I am done with this shit because apparently staff does not appreciate when government is run as well oiled machine just because it's not OFL.
Hopefully someone more active than OFLs can sort out LibGov's stuff for the time being.
(11-06-2023, 09:40 AM)Czechmate Wrote: Yeah tbh I am struggling with that one too - the shadow gov discord really has no power in the end, the real voting and discussions come in the official discord - it really is pointless to vote something in as then you have to both revote, and often also discuss with stuff what is reasonable and lore friendly - and then you'd need to bring it back, revote again and bring it to staff again for more voting and discussion.
It's probably better if the shadow gov is just a place/l for brainstorming/discussion of factions not represented without voting tbh
Quote, by the guy who pushed the "shadow gov"'s members out, and threatened to make other Discords about whatever, as ifs the solution here is a literal nightmare, for Gallia as well.
The previous government was better. I am sure. We were alone, not on the official Discord, and everything was confidential, until @Groshyr broke the common contract acknowledged and accepted by all members, by leaking, but leaks happen in every government: don't tell me you have not.
For all, I deny this. I refuse that this is the best you can do. You can change that rule, or rollback, or make a new one that would be closer to what we had in GalGov, but better (to avoid cases such as Groshyr leaking).
Was this a response from GalGov having @Darius, that remained as an observer because he was a representative that was stripped of his voting rights the very same moment and was branded "Suspended Member" in the Government, who could do NOTHING, and then me being accused of letting him doing whatever, while the RULES THEMSELVES states that GalGov representatives have zero moderation power, only access to the government part? Before I get thrown to my face the rules as if I didn't know them by heart by then?
What was the reason behind messing so hard with the SINGLE rule that was probably like this since a decade, this thread is a dumpster fire? There must be a real reason for messing up with the players who tried. At least as a price for it; GIVE US THE FULL INTENTION BEHIND THIS CHANGE OF RULE.
Our government worked, and it was after voting, we've had many votes, some were informal, some were unanimous - most importantly; they took in consideration not only the Unlawful and Quasilawful, but the unofficial factions (such as GMS|) this one, IT HAS TO PASS THROUGH MULTIPLE BUREAUCRACIES. And it's ONLY LEMON.
Now:
I believe I sent requests, nothing - I pinged members of the staff (and got muted because I pinged 4 at once because I was in an emergency situation and NEEDED mods ASAP), now I chose to ping nobody because I doubt they even care or would just mute me. I sent DMs to Admins. for questions - still get ignored despite the urgency. Thankfully, I managed myself, hardly. This is a telling of how bureaucratic or outright sleeping the Administration is. I wonder how it is for the Houses. When I was there, I could ping a member, hell, we had a moderator in the government to help us (thank you @Karst).
This all began after the end of my investiture. Enjoy the chaos. Fix it, now.
This thread made me remember how I like witnessing over-the-top arguments and would avoid to participate. Now, I gave my opinion, and what I demand.
@"Czechmate"
We can at least reintroduce the voting and reengage the government, by having you relay EVERYTHING; and us, represent each faction, 2 representatives, 1 vote per representative, 0.5 vote per unofficial representative.
(11-06-2023, 01:41 PM)Czechmate Wrote: [LN] will be OF soon, no worries.
I just hope staff are ready for the case where all OFLs go inactive in a house - they will literally have to make the replies themselves
My man, you're the only OFL "fit for governement" (ignore me, I'm apparently not, because i'm Quasilawful) for Gallia.
(11-06-2023, 11:12 AM)Karst Wrote: Just tell us. It's really not hard.
just unban me from the main discord instead of having this aversion of having people on it so they can contact you
im not gonna hunt down moderators on discord who might not show for multiple days or send PMs to every single one of you (and your full inboxes) because you clowns dont want to actually participate in this shitshow of your making.
either let the people who are active be involved on the discord (yes i made a fucking player request that you denied) or take the L and backpedal from your braindead decision to slow everything down to a glacial crawl.
also please apologize to crayter for us not responding to this because even sending simple communication responses will be like pulling teeth. we not only cant make decisions, we cant do any responding because we have to track down the janitors for approval for the barest kinds of roleplay. absolutely no one wants to deal with phoning any of you for every single message of non-import
"i responded to your ping on discord so fast!"
dont care, not using my DMs or other discords to hunt down moderators, do it right and let me use official channels or stop telling me to deal with it, i will never "deal with it"
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