Promoting police roleplay - separating Police and Military identity?

[Kusari State Police |KSP|]

This particular faction has been resurrected about 3 times in the last 4 years or so.

The problem used to be that, hardly anyone would be around the Kusari systems when the faction logged, or just basically avoided the interaction for obvious reasons.
There are still members with their ships, but have not logged for at least a year now. This faction, would have possibly continued to log, but basically we only ever had interactions with the GC Faction.

Also I think other factions including Shinamori, would also be nice to see around more, but again there is nothing worthwhile logging for, and I think its simply due to the fact that it was very easy to avoid us and not interact.

I would love to bring the faction back, but there is really no incentive to do it in any way.

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[Tenshi Kuonji]

I always belive that Core Factions from Houses or Vanilla ones, should keep the right of OF whenever they want without the whole burden process, because Police ID is kinda funny, we just have 2 more issues as for today ...

0.- This is not the CORRUPT LPI a Private Corporation filled with APATHY, GREED, CORRUPTION, AND SUCH INHERENT ACT OF "BAD" POWER, THIS IS ACTUALLY KPR| A POLIZEI FROM THE GLORIOUS RHEINLAND!! //Seriously, not compare such LPI with the glorious Rheinland one ¬¬

... but going to the point ...

1.- Player Base, we barely reach 60 at best, we have such numbers like 130 or more after the patch, but what it happened next? we got really same numbers as before ...
2.- Police should be the ones "patrolling" unless something really hard is happening, Police can act till a way, in Rheinland even the KPR Flagship (A Battlecrusier actually) is, it can't do much in heavy situations, we don't have the react time or act response for it ...
3.- We can almost people sometimes play opposite sites, but, have you ever come the idea of "this could not be something police do" ... Even for a player wanna go seriously, you are kinda stopped in actions for such issues, what if he leaves or dock?
4.- The Police should get his commands, be as how they are and unless a treat is present that police can't manage we should push on military, and the intelligence is more for "kill without they ever knowing, we weren't there) goverment request and they apply (killers outside the military and police boundaries)
5.- Police should not lose the crusier and battlecrusier allowance, not if you wanna stay doing and be useful in cases you are protecting your fatherland actually ... we should add or keep the benefits, not reduce it ...

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[Karlotta]

Hi guys. You are probably aware than there are currently no dedicated police official factions in any house. Moreover, even unofficially, only a fraction of active players in any house seem to be playing police characters. Frankly, I don't remember the last time I saw a BPA or a KSP ship during my forays into Bretonia and Kusari, and Rheinland only has a few dedicated players for its unofficial police faction (KPR).

If we assume that this is a problem, what should be the solution?
I wanted to open a discussion about what could be the minimal amount of modification which may lead to more players focusing on police roleplay.

My own solution is as follows: change house military id lines from "Can enforce laws within House Space" to "Can attack ships breaking laws within House Space."
The idea behind this is simple: the military is a blunt tool with little training about civilian disputes and smuggling regulations. Their solution starts and ends with the application of force. So if you want more options when dealing with criminals (e.g. fines), and the ability to make inrp arrests, you fly on police ids. If anything too big comes calling, you ping the military for help and disengage until you have more support.

What do y'all think?

Typical disco staff failure in thinking.

"Nerf other IDs, surely what will raise X ID's activity"

No.

That would have worked if there wer too many players on other IDs, as there were 12 years ago.

The problem today is not that there are not enough police players.

It's that there are not enough players.

In order to raise player number, you need to make the game more fun across the board.

Part of that (and there is much more to it) is dropping stupid restrictions on every ID that make every ID less fun, thinking by making every ID more crappy to benefit other IDs that will somehow make every ID better. No.

Nobody today thinks "jeze this navy gameplay is just too much fun, if it was less fun I'd play police maybe" and then 20 more people will play police and 10 less navy.

Today people are like "why even bother logging anything because X crappy thing is sure to happen and Y fun thing surely wont happen".

We'll probably talk about this again in 3 years if there is still is a server, because even if staff will start doing stuff barely in the right direction 5 years too late, they still wont engage with it 1 day after most people would have understood the reasoning behind it.

ps: oh look people think staff is conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy yada yada yada. no. nobody says you are made of conspiracy. you are made of stupid.

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[The_Godslayer]

Today people are like "why even bother logging anything because X crappy thing is sure to happen and Y fun thing surely wont happen".

Holy Jesus, Karlotta post that I agree with. You know staff is on some bs when there's a Karlotta post I agree with.

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"Whatever happened to catchin' a good old-fashioned passionate ass-whoopin and gettin' your shoes, coat, and your hat tooken?"

[darkwind]

Hi guys. You are probably aware than there are currently no dedicated police official factions in any house. Moreover, even unofficially, only a fraction of active players in any house seem to be playing police characters. Frankly, I don't remember the last time I saw a BPA or a KSP ship during my forays into Bretonia and Kusari, and Rheinland only has a few dedicated players for its unofficial police faction (KPR).

If we assume that this is a problem, what should be the solution?
I wanted to open a discussion about what could be the minimal amount of modification which may lead to more players focusing on police roleplay.

My own solution is as follows: change house military id lines from "Can enforce laws within House Space" to "Can attack ships breaking laws within House Space."
The idea behind this is simple: the military is a blunt tool with little training about civilian disputes and smuggling regulations. Their solution starts and ends with the application of force. So if you want more options when dealing with criminals (e.g. fines), and the ability to make inrp arrests, you fly on police ids. If anything too big comes calling, you ping the military for help and disengage until you have more support.

What do y'all think?

As a former police member, sounds fun.
Although i would think that may be limiting them is not very fair. May be they just wish this choice of roleplay. Shrugs. Let them have it.
They will be tempted to play police because of tlagsnet and nodock anyway. If they wish to play military for enforcing laws despite such levels of limitations, can we just admire them for more harder choices

I have heard of /nodock myself, and I agree that it would be a useful tool that incorporates the idea that police are tied into the civilian infrastructure. In my opinion someone abusing this feature can be easily sanctioned under 1.2 (trolling) or maybe 2.3 (metagaming/powergaming). So maybe a lot of people will get hit with this after a potential rollout, but then things will settle where it gets used properly.

I guess the question is what this actually accomplishes. I guess instead of the criminal docking at a nearby lawful base, they will have to keep running until they get to some Junker base or an unlawful station. But unless you have the firepower, doesn't that just mean a longer chase with the criminal still docking to get away from you in the end?

Somewhat risky of course giving that much power to indies.
but you are right regarding having ability to enforce rules, so lets presume we are responsible adults here.
kind of making me tempting to play police once again too

in the worst case there is always an option to rollback it back to having nodock to officials only.

Anyway, i vote to try giving it to indies too.

I guess the question is what this actually accomplishes. I guess instead of the criminal docking at a nearby lawful base, they will have to keep running until they get to some Junker base or an unlawful station. But unless you have the firepower, doesn't that just mean a longer chase with the criminal still docking to get away from you in the end?

As a former police player i can assure /nodock and tlagsnet is more than enough to play cat and mouse with criminals.
Sure they have safe homes like Junker bases, but they take long time to reach, and u can outsmart criminals if u analyze and make predictions well enough.
So it is very equal field.

> But unless you have the firepower

You need just having Bomber level of firepower for most of regular transporting criminals. Not really hard to meet quota.
Or sometimes needing actually Cruiser, if going against very heavy armored Junker vessels.

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[darkwind]

I always belive that Core Factions from Houses or Vanilla ones, should keep the right of OF whenever they want without the whole burden process, because Police ID is kinda funny, we just have 2 more issues as for today ...

0.- This is not the CORRUPT LPI a Private Corporation filled with APATHY, GREED, CORRUPTION, AND SUCH INHERENT ACT OF "BAD" POWER, THIS IS ACTUALLY KPR| A POLIZEI FROM THE GLORIOUS RHEINLAND!! //Seriously, not compare such LPI with the glorious Rheinland one ¬¬

... but going to the point ...

1.- Player Base, we barely reach 60 at best, we have such numbers like 130 or more after the patch, but what it happened next? we got really same numbers as before ...
2.- Police should be the ones "patrolling" unless something really hard is happening, Police can act till a way, in Rheinland even the KPR Flagship (A Battlecrusier actually) is, it can't do much in heavy situations, we don't have the react time or act response for it ...
3.- We can almost people sometimes play opposite sites, but, have you ever come the idea of "this could not be something police do" ... Even for a player wanna go seriously, you are kinda stopped in actions for such issues, what if he leaves or dock?
4.- The Police should get his commands, be as how they are and unless a treat is present that police can't manage we should push on military, and the intelligence is more for "kill without they ever knowing, we weren't there) goverment request and they apply (killers outside the military and police boundaries)
5.- Police should not lose the crusier and battlecrusier allowance, not if you wanna stay doing and be useful in cases you are protecting your fatherland actually ... we should add or keep the benefits, not reduce it ...

CORRUPT LPI

Good old days of LPI.

Yesterday you enforced laws in front of military vessels flying around like a good man
Tomorrow you make a deal with a smuggler regarding getting a bribe and allowing him to continue flight with his artifacts. Everybody wins and happy, hehe. (As long as no other military vessel around patrolling nearby of course to notice this)

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[pillow]

permaban anyone playing a police id without flying the house lf

[darkwind]

I always belive that Core Factions from Houses or Vanilla ones, should keep the right of OF whenever they want without the whole burden process, because Police ID is kinda funny, we just have 2 more issues as for today ...

0.- This is not the CORRUPT LPI a Private Corporation filled with APATHY, GREED, CORRUPTION, AND SUCH INHERENT ACT OF "BAD" POWER, THIS IS ACTUALLY KPR| A POLIZEI FROM THE GLORIOUS RHEINLAND!! //Seriously, not compare such LPI with the glorious Rheinland one ¬¬

... but going to the point ...

1.- Player Base, we barely reach 60 at best, we have such numbers like 130 or more after the patch, but what it happened next? we got really same numbers as before ...
2.- Police should be the ones "patrolling" unless something really hard is happening, Police can act till a way, in Rheinland even the KPR Flagship (A Battlecrusier actually) is, it can't do much in heavy situations, we don't have the react time or act response for it ...
3.- We can almost people sometimes play opposite sites, but, have you ever come the idea of "this could not be something police do" ... Even for a player wanna go seriously, you are kinda stopped in actions for such issues, what if he leaves or dock?
4.- The Police should get his commands, be as how they are and unless a treat is present that police can't manage we should push on military, and the intelligence is more for "kill without they ever knowing, we weren't there) goverment request and they apply (killers outside the military and police boundaries)
5.- Police should not lose the crusier and battlecrusier allowance, not if you wanna stay doing and be useful in cases you are protecting your fatherland actually ... we should add or keep the benefits, not reduce it ...

Minor addition regarding crusers and battlecrusers. Agree it should not be taken away.
Most of them time big criminals fly Battleships anyway. It was fun to participate and help at least with a weak cruiser, it was usually always not enough to do a job 1 x 1, u need other military for help, but at least u are making damage enough to play a part.
Well, i am at least again removal of Cruisers. not really having any opinion about battlecrusers, they are kind of not ultra useful in police duties anyway. Too awkward ship for every day work a bit.

Also, another reason to leave capitals is for the sake of not locking police to be only at the level of fighting against overpowered fighters which some people just gave up to play against. Some people managed to learn pvp against pvp only at the level of caps pretty much :/ At least i gave up to ever be able defeating fighters, never figured out how it is possible.
Even if u do your worst in capital fight, u at least scratch enemy. U can easily leave not even a scratch against overexperienced fighter players :/

If u want to promote police better, better consider bumping smuggling rewards at the most easy to catch places like manhattan hehe. Or having some other reward at one of central bases

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[darkwind]

permaban anyone playing a police id without flying the house lf

Sounds fair to me. it can be added as Red bold front in its ID.
with great power comes great responsibility

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[Shimamori]

I have been flying KSP for a few years now. Although I do not exactly RP the police I still use the id and act accordingly

There are many reasons why I and my faction friends do not log in, timezone and irl mostly being the the major ones with no countermeasure. When it gets to the the gameplay, imho, police id is fine. It is the roleplay that is meh. As a police player what you are supposed to do is just like Lemon said patrol around your house. I don't know about you but it gets boring after half an hour even with some background stellaris or a TV show. Most common type of a player you encounter is a trader. You greet them, they greet you (in better scenario, otherwise it is just the silent trader) and that's about it. It's ok once in a while but gets tedious after some time, especially off peak hours. There is nothing to do as a police in pve, there are no unique POB mechanics for police, and in the end it's just boring. Maybe that's just me getting bored with disco in general as I no longer feel the urge to RP and create RP content, or it's indeed an intrinsic part of playing the police.

P.S. i feel appreciated having been mentioned (and remembered) by the KSP above. I am sorry, guys, we haven't played much with you. Timezone difference was the main reason, the other being we were two active players at that time so there was less chances for you to see us logged. I am glad to see you are still around.

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