I may be a special individual, but can someone explain me the actual benefit of restricting or taxing basic actions like JD, and now even movement via fuel? And the concerns that we need even more money sinks. Why should it get more and more difficult? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Maybe some of you guys have the time and pleasure to grind for your daily chores, but not everyone does. What's the next step? Caps will be allowerd to repair only on solar shipyards, or pobs with shipyard module? At the expense of systems and even a cooking rate, cuz it doesn't makes sense to get repaired instantly?
I may be a special individual, but can someone explain me the actual benefit of restricting or taxing basic actions like JD, and now even movement via fuel? And the concerns that we need even more money sinks. Why should it get more and more difficult? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Maybe some of you guys have the time and pleasure to grind for your daily chores, but not everyone does. What's the next step? Caps will be allowerd to repair only on solar shipyards, or pobs with shipyard module? At the expense of systems and even a cooking rate, cuz it doesn't makes sense to get repaired instantly?
C'mom, keep it simple
the problem is we need people to trade more, create more organic interactions then just skirmishes with other factions plan ahead through discord
I have been loosely keeping tabs of this subject since this, and ones like it (taxing via trade lanes, jump gates) get talked about once in awhile. I figure I'll throw my own point of view into the pile.
I think the argument for it as a money sink is unnecessary. If the economy is still dealing with an issue of financial surplus, reducing the payouts of missions, trade goods, or increasing the difficulty of obtaining raw materials for fabrication projects could be used instead. I don't find merit in this topic.
What I have found myself scratching my chin at is the prospect of having to think about long distance routes differently in terms of logistically. If my ship is only good for a few systems, as a smuggler (especially with contraband on board), I would have to set time and thought aside on purpose to think about this especially in the Omicrons. This could raise the need of fencing as well. I'm sure fuel costs will be more expensive on unlawful bases so it may be worth using a freighter to haul in smuggle and refuel on the way back cheaper rather then paying out a lot more to refuel my pilgrim liner or pirate transport at Rochester or Buffalo, as an example. This will also force combat units to think about battle in a different way. Is your battle group or squadron low on fuel and can't afford to combat the enemy ahead? What will this look like to combat if this is implemented? Ships dedicated to refueling could also be a fun little roleplay idea as well. "Hank Rover's Dine and Gulp! Come get yer tummy fooled whal ur ship get fooled too, ten fo!".
Overall, I think it's a good idea not only for the logistics side of things but also for the role play perspective. It's often forgotten that this is a role play based community and this idea would add role play flare to the day to day interactions. It's worth a try at least. It may even force fuel based factions (you know who you are) to actually roleplay for once.
It ain't about what you are capable of, it's about what you're willing to do.
I will put it simply. There is no need to make this game look like other space/flying sims. We should want to stay different from them to keep a unique feeling. Because why would someone play a older game when they can play the new ones that is being copied?
(07-01-2025, 11:46 AM)vladimir26 Wrote: I may be a special individual, but can someone explain me the actual benefit of restricting or taxing basic actions like JD, and now even movement via fuel? And the concerns that we need even more money sinks. Why should it get more and more difficult?
Because we have spent the better part of the last decade making it more and more effortless to earn and maintain wealth. You need means of draining said wealth to actually make people engage with moneymaking loops. Sadly, the sinks seem to be no closer than the transport rework even as more and more money floods the player economy.
Not that fuel is the solution to the problem, far from it.
(07-01-2025, 11:46 AM)vladimir26 Wrote: I may be a special individual, but can someone explain me the actual benefit of restricting or taxing basic actions like JD, and now even movement via fuel? And the concerns that we need even more money sinks. Why should it get more and more difficult?
Because we have spent the better part of the last decade making it more and more effortless to earn and maintain wealth. You need means of draining said wealth to actually make people engage with moneymaking loops. Sadly, the sinks seem to be no closer than the transport rework even as more and more money floods the player economy.
Not that fuel is the solution to the problem, far from it.
Well, I know a few guys who trade just because that's what they enjoy to do, and despite having billions, they won't spend them, cuz they are not interested in any other stuff like ships and codes. Others like myself keep some change on the side for further use on new content or projects. On the other side, there are players like Fab and Venemon who would rather sell their ships and equipment for credits than trade or get engaged in the actual moneymaking loops.
Consider bringing back old battlezones, those were fun, interactive and profitable. Also, maybe implement a server wide bounty script, like the one from events, to actually earn something from PvP without the Bounty Boards. Those are also maintained via trade. With these alternatives, trading can be nerfed a bit to encourage the new ones. Gaining wealth from interactive moneymaking loops shouldn't be as bad as the silent trading everyone complains about.
I wanted to respond with a general point that I don't think came through clearly in the main post. The main purpose of this mechanic is the rp flavor and immersion, aka something that is tangible in-game that you can play around. I can today buy mox as rwx mentioned and pretend I need it to fly my ship, etc. etc. But that's not very compelling, and hardly anyone will inherently understand what I'm doing unless directly told - they'll just assume I'm hauling mox towards some pob.
There are other things which are involved in such a system, like the money sink and the pvp balance, but those are secondary. I guess I shouldn't have mentioned them to focus the discussion better, but I felt that it was important to bring them up.
The main parts of this discussion which I like is finding ways to minimize the impact of this mechanic on enjoyment while maximizing rp flavor. One aspect that I didn't really see mentioned is the ability to cruise faster when you have fuel in the hold, and otherwise everything is the same. This and other suggestions like only system gates/holes eating fuel are what I wanted to solicit.
Of course, it's good to have negative feedback too. But people seem to be assuming that this is happening, and that it would be implemented without any fine-tuning or playtesting. I can assure you that this is just food for thought. I also see a general view that I should play other games if I want to experience this. Well, this may be a bold statement, but I returned to disco because no other game comes close to scratching the scifi sandbox rp itch. Otheriwse, I would be playing it. No offense, but suggesting star citizen and eve - let's get real here. I'd much rather keep iterating on what we've nurtured here, especially with more tools on the horizon from Laz, Aingar, and other folks.
Thanks for contributing, and feel free to keep the thread going!
(07-02-2025, 12:01 AM)Barrier Wrote: much rather keep iterating on what we've nurtured here, especially with more tools on the horizon from Laz, Aingar, and other folks.
@Barrier most people see the RP behind what you suggested and yes it will be a 'more' immersion thingy, but let's be honest here which everyone seems to be that way:
Freelancer is mostly an arcade game, a space ship simulator.
Discovery brought on the game awesome mechanics which many said already, POB, Cloaking devices and Docking modules. But adding another mechanic that will more restrain and being an annoyance on the long run, I don't know if the activity will be high. I see the RP of purchasing x commodity for fuel and fly around, but have you think for nomads and AIs? Those two are not running on H-Fuel.
I'd prefer seeing more story development or see new addition for AIs (since I am an AI player) than mechanics that are flirting with No Man's Sky or any other space games having fuel. Capital ship players already have a lot of mechanics to learn and re-learn. Now you add a fuel system management while the shield management is still a challenge? I do not think they will enjoy much. And now, for snub ships, while there are techniques to fly it properly in pvp, adding a fuel management will just be a nuisance as well.
Ex: You fly a snub, take down one in a fleet battle and then, you run out because you forgot to add fuel, you stop moving, you drift in space and become and easy target.
This, my friend, it is a big no.
I admire the work Laz, Aingar and many more bring to the game, but the fuel? Hell no.
(07-02-2025, 12:01 AM)Barrier Wrote: I wanted to respond with a general point that I don't think came through clearly in the main post. The main purpose of this mechanic is the rp flavor and immersion, aka something that is tangible in-game that you can play around. I can today buy mox as rwx mentioned and pretend I need it to fly my ship, etc. etc. But that's not very compelling, and hardly anyone will inherently understand what I'm doing unless directly told - they'll just assume I'm hauling mox towards some pob.
There are other things which are involved in such a system, like the money sink and the pvp balance, but those are secondary. I guess I shouldn't have mentioned them to focus the discussion better, but I felt that it was important to bring them up.
The main parts of this discussion which I like is finding ways to minimize the impact of this mechanic on enjoyment while maximizing rp flavor. One aspect that I didn't really see mentioned is the ability to cruise faster when you have fuel in the hold, and otherwise everything is the same. This and other suggestions like only system gates/holes eating fuel are what I wanted to solicit.
Of course, it's good to have negative feedback too. But people seem to be assuming that this is happening, and that it would be implemented without any fine-tuning or playtesting. I can assure you that this is just food for thought. I also see a general view that I should play other games if I want to experience this. Well, this may be a bold statement, but I returned to disco because no other game comes close to scratching the scifi sandbox rp itch. Otheriwse, I would be playing it. No offense, but suggesting star citizen and eve - let's get real here. I'd much rather keep iterating on what we've nurtured here, especially with more tools on the horizon from Laz, Aingar, and other folks.
Thanks for contributing, and feel free to keep the thread going!
Many players believe (like i do) that regardles of what we say the Team will do as they please,
They seem hell bent on changing the game so much and so deeply that its stopping to be the same game we all love and played for years,
Meanng its becoming an entirely diferent game, one wich many may believe its not our game anymore.
This idea is from someone who doesnt really fly many hours clearly,
Altough on one side we could say this would be a good RP addition on the other hand there is the actual gameplay and this will not improve the experience for sure,
The game already has so many intrincacies i dont think its good to add unnecessary and reduntant stuff in ANY manner or shape, new players will have a even harder time,
However i could see this implemented in some very restricted ships, making it a CHOICE instead of something mandatory, this way everyone would be "happy"
In the same way that i sugested that the new mining and the old mining should exist together as overleaping fields to maintain OPTIONS, this could also be the case.
In any case and if this goes forword, a sugestion, ships could, if possible in coding, have the fuel stored like ammo so you dont need to mess with the cargo holds of the ships,
![[Image: Mt9PRRk.png]](https://i.imgur.com/Mt9PRRk.png)
