I'm a bit concerned

[Jihadjoe]

Proof wan't the point Jinx, I actualy wanted people to take some notice.

People leave over the fact we're so bloody nasty to each other. I have people saying "I am really pissed off with *blahhh* right now, he is being a real arse on the forums" or "I feel personally attacked by <name>" or even "I hate 'x' faction"

Its all personal attacks and it has to stop before the decent people who care about other people leave the server.

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[Jinx]

well - with so many members, its hard to have all harmony. - and there are i think 2 people i totally disrespect on the forum, too - for their comments and their ways to deal with critizism and different opinions. - however, - in the end, its an insignificant percentage of the people that are OK. - so those 2 people are simply unimportant - annoying - but not really important enough to bother.

i am sure i m on some peoples list too - but again, the vast majority on the forum is quite civilized - and if you brought such different people into one big room in RL... there d be much more bickering than here on the forum.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Jihadjoe]

well - with so many members, its hard to have all harmony. - and there are i think 2 people i totally disrespect on the forum, too - for their comments and their ways to deal with critizism and different opinions. - however, - in the end, its an insignificant percentage of the people that are OK. - so those 2 people are simply unimportant - annoying - but not really important enough to bother.

This is a good attitude.

However one little thing about your post. I don't want us all to have harmony, that is an impossible goal to achieve.

What I would like is for us all to at least treat each other like humans, rather than someone so distant and unimportant in your life that you can just hurl abuse and it won't bounce back onto you. Just because you don't know someone in the flesh doesn't mean it's ok for you to tell them that they and all their arguments are worthless, which is basically what a lot of posts in flame fests ammount to.

I'm gunna keep my hands off this thread now.

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[Sassafras]

Hey Joe,

Going back to your original post--quadruple signed. I'm going to try to live up to your example.

Sass

[DW-Suzanna]

JihadJoe wrote:

I have had quite a lot of people come to me recently saying how they're really upset with the culture here on the forums and in game.

It has got me thinking about some stuff.

I think we're vile to each other here... Utterly insensitive, cruel, dismissive, agressive, nasty, childish -and- condecending.

This needs to change.

People leave over the fact we're so bloody nasty to each other. I have people saying "I am really pissed off with *blahhh* right now, he is being a real arse on the forums" or "I feel personally attacked by <name>" or even "I hate 'x' faction"

Its all personal attacks and it has to stop before the decent people who care about other people leave the server.

I completely agree with the above statements.
As with most servers I have played on during my long career in FL, it seems to me that the bad "attitude" towards others is mainly expressed on the forums, not in the game itself. Maybe this is because some people like to use the forums to rant and let off steam, maybe they have had a "bad day"... how easy it is to sit at the keyboard and type furiously, venting all that pent up emotion... it is doubtful if they would really behave like that if they were actually face to face with players. It is sad that a good online community can get spoilt in this way. The majority do not act this way, we need to remember that. Most are here to have fun, relax and enjoy a great game.

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Sig edited out because it tripped Chrome's malware alarm.

[Jinx]

what we re expecting is people on at least a bare minimum level of social competence and interaction skill. - that involves the ability of a multiperspectual point of view of various issues as well as a high tolerance when being criticized ( by total strangers ).

in RL that would almost be equal to being stopped by someone in the street to be yelled and at told off. - the only thing that brings all the people together is a free roam arcade space shooter. - and considering that this is hardly a strong basis for an equal to equal interaction, things are better than one might expect - though no perfect of course.

patronizing attitudes, arrogance, know-it-all attitudes are common here - just as in RL. - and what we like to forget is - the forum is a meeting place where kids chat with adults. - one cannot be certain about the ages that are posted, but if at least some of it is true - we got kids at around 10-12 years up to adults of like 40-50 years. - the only other place you might see such a setup of different ages debating about a topic ( leave family of course ) is a schoolroom. - and in such an enviroment, the roles are anything but equal to equal - but teacher to pupils.

when it comes to swearing, we love to point out how kids play this game, too. - harsh bans for swearing are the result, when people are much more attacked on the forum in perfectly civilized english as clear of slang swearwords as the best oxford english. - and that is an odd thing, - cause indeed... the interaction is usually on a much friendlier or easier base ingame than it is on the forum, - yet, insults, personal attacks, grief and prejudice has almost no consequence on the forum, while in the game, we lock people out for at LEAST 7 days up to - i think a month was the highest ban for swearing so far.

one problem is of course that there are hardly any rules on the forum. - everyone can speak their mind, cause everything is quite anonymously. - in the end, no one can really consider the other one well, cause what we know of the other person is mostly what the other person allows us to know about him / her. yet, we assume we can consider the people, categorize them and apply stereotypes.

what the forum might (sometimes) need is a much more intense moderation - if we had all the people we got on the forum, people that activly talk to each other - in one room in RL... we d soon need at least a few psychologists or we should hope that no one has brought any weapons.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Jihadjoe]

The same attitude is on the servers, I see it all the time as an indie who gets whored by factions all the time, then sees everything wrong on the server blamed on indies here, and that's the thing, there are divides that are not going to get healed, and people here that don't deserve my respect.

It doesn't mean the forums can't be more civil, that's really up to the people who moderate the forums that need to step in and stop personal attacks and spam. Other than personal attacks and spam there is no issue, people can disagree and not like or respect each other, and still post disagreements and that's fine.

What's funny is that I started playing freelancer online years ago on eagle utopia, a pure pvp server where everyone flew an eagle with four nomads and two tizzies (OK, you had a few missle guys and the oddball in a sabre or titan, and one or two in LF's)

Almost all fights were one on one, all fights were fair, and all fights ended with "gf"

I hardly ever see "gf" here, because who says it to a group of faction guys who just blew you up 5 to 1, and then are posting here calling indies cap whores?

Ok, this is exactly what I am reffering to Akuma. It is a blame culture that causes the issues. You are laying blame for the interpersonal problems you have with certain individuals on factions (which I regard as a very wide assumption, but you are entitled to your veiw). Many people within factions may blame their problems on indies. Neither are right. The problem starts when we stop talking to each other as equals. The assumption that -you- are right is stupid.

I do have a problem with people taking personal issues, such as the one you raised, and inserting them into threads that are not about this. Your veiw on factions is something which has little place here. This thread is about treating each other properly. How about you start treating people within factions properly and stop assuming you're right all the time.
And factions. Take heed certain people feel persecuted by factions. Maybe there is some truth in it, maybe not. But either way, you shouldn't spit all over anyone's veiws because your regard yourself as right.

Just treat each other with respect. You don't have to like someone to treat them with respect, nor do you have to agree with them. Just remember the fact they are human
Just like you.

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[kingvaillant]

/totally signed the first post
/totally signed the FOUR other topics that were made for the same subject

Indeed Joe, people here show less inhibition when dealing with others. Wish we could all speak face to face and solve our problems, but unless you have a webcam it ain't possible.

Now, calmly, and UN-offensively, Xing, Tennacity, all others who did similar things (just readed the first en second page), just stop doing this here please, if you cannot tolerate eachothers, just put X person in ignore list, but don't come here and cut our fun because you hold a grudge against one single person.

I am entitled to my opinion, like others, but I have to respect people's choice, even if they are against my values.

EDIT: Stupid auto corector,,,,,, changed words to their antonyms XD

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Director of the Liberty Security Force: Fidelity, Bravery and Integrity

The Amundsen Zone-21 Restrictions

[Taffic]

I think I actualy regret having made this thread.

Why is it when a thread is made trying to make a positive difference to the way we go about things here it ends up being a perfect example of what needs changing.

This is a good thread Joe and your intentions are noble.

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[BaconSoda]

Joe, I don't think you should be at all regretting this post. If anything, it brought a message that needed to be heard, and quite eloquently. I haven't had the time to read up on everything else yet, but I think this helped more than it hurt....

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.