' Wrote:How about doing to the Bounty Hunters the same that was done to the Mercenaries in 4.84. Take away their capital ships. It's not like these ships are being employed to the end they were commissioned to anyway. The vast majority of the Bounty Hunter capital ships (cruiser up) are being used to gank pirates in core systems. I reckon this would grant back the BHG their due status in House territory.
EDIT: At least it worked for the Mercenaries. The class is more respected and serious nowadays.
I don't really care to be punished for owning a BH cap ship because of the silliness of a few.
Nor am I willing the "jump through the hoops" in a faction to "earn" the right to pilot a bunch of pixels.
I traded many hours in rp-fashion to earn the scratch for my BS. As long as I obey server rules, try to foster a spirit of fair play, all the while roleplaying, I will fly any large cap ship that I want.
I spend very little time in the Core Systems. If I'm flying there, it's for a purpose. And no, not to collect bounties on LFs, or on anything.
I know better that a large cap ship is not a pwnmobile. It has it's weaknesses: 1. It's as big as a small moon. 2. Manuevers like a small moon. 3. Two or more bombers will have you eating a slice of humble pie before you can say "O noz! I bit off more than I can chew!"
My unsolicited advice to unlawful bomber pilots everywhere: Relax, take a series of deep breaths, call some buddies and enjoy your overpowered SNs. Yes, they are unbalanced, but I consider it a compromise. You can fly your bombers and feel powerful and I get to fly my capship and pew-pew with turrets that lock onto one target at time. It's a win-win situation.
If a BH cap pilot is acting like an oaf, tell him to knock it off. Failing that, screenshot his shenanigans. That'll learn 'im!
If I correctly understand the old Merc situation, the problems were that you had Mercs buying any ship they wanted (including the Nomad BS) and slapping any equipment on it that caught their fancy. I don't believe that the current problem with BH BCers is quite that dire. Most seem to at least understand that BH use the gear allowed for BH. I did spot one fellow a week ago with some Kusari turrets and suggested to him that they were probably not all that kosher, considering Kusarian attitudes towards BH. He left to change his turrets after our conversation. Proof in the pudding that BH capship pilots are willing to take constructive criticism and make adjustments.
In conclusion, I enjoy flying capships. My sense of self-worth is not tied to the ship I pilot. I have nothing to prove to anyone, I just want to relax and enjoy the game.
BHG was perfect before the mercs were nerft down. - after that, every scum went to join the BHG faction and the reputation is now ruined for a long long time. - one must be ashamed to be BHG, even if you try hard to RP.
when you nerf the BHG to smaller ships - you have two problems...
- a whole line of ships is gone
- the same that went from mercs to BHG will join the next best faction ( zoners / junkers )
...
Not necessarily, since only the BHG and Mercenaries can justify (?) operating (PvPing for that matter) largely in any corner of Sirius. While Zoners and Junkers also have a broad Zone of Interest, their operations are very different from that of the Mercenaries and the BHG and wouldn't be so attractive to the kinds that gave the Mercenaries and now the BHG the bad name. But I understand your point. So, let's try and see it from a different perspective.
The biggest issue is that those ships that were supposed to be operating in the Border Worlds aren't doing so. The whole debate about "which path are them (the ships) supposed to take to reach the Border Systems" becomes kinda moot when the only thing those ships do is keep trolling and loitering inside Core Systems (some don't ever leave to the Border Systems anyway). What I don't exactly understand is why you're pointing out Liberty as a starting point in the first place. Aren't those capitals built/sold in the Omega-15 system? From there they can take a direct route inside the Border Systems to Kusari (only "valid" entry point to Delta). Well, if Kusari is blocking those ships from passing through to Delta, then that indeed becomes a problem.
How about petitioning a jump hole from from 56 straight to Delta or at least leading to a reasonable route, then? It would make a lot of sense for the BHG to pick a guard system from which they have a direct link to one of their main Zones of Interest.
House systems wouldn't be so resistant to the BHG (specially their cruisers and up) if experience didn't show that those warships are being employed inside House territory, putting House security in check.
EDIT:
' Wrote:...
If I correctly understand the old Merc situation, the problems were that you had Mercs buying any ship they wanted (including the Nomad BS) and slapping any equipment on it that caught their fancy. I don't believe that the current problem with BH BCers is quite that dire. Most seem to at least understand that BH use the gear allowed for BH. I did spot one fellow a week ago with some Kusari turrets and suggested to him that they were probably not all that kosher, considering Kusarian attitudes towards BH. He left to change his turrets after our conversation. Proof in the pudding that BH capship pilots are willing to take constructive criticism and make adjustments.
...
Yes, Mercenaries had the additional issue of displaying an assortment of combinations. From the standpoint of someone who enjoys the faction (or the ID for that matter). The 4.84 nerfing was a very welcome one to the Mercenaries. I figured that to the people that enjoy the BHG as a faction rather than its set of ships it would be as welcome.
Even though the fact that Mercenaries would use anything in 4.83, the main issue was their employment of the ships. Much less than the BHG, there was no RP reasoning for the Mercenaries' capital ships. They were just big pwnmachines. The BHG, on the other hand, has a very well defined reasoning behind their capitals. Problem is that instead of this reasoning serving as a strong guideline for the role to be portrayed by the BHG players that chose to fly their capitals, it merely serves as an excuse for those ships to exist and for the players to own them. As a result we have a Sirius wide police flying battleships.
This is not the case for all players, but it's the case for the vast majority of the ones using those ships. At least the ones who have motivated House governments to be resistant to them.
a jumphole is what i suggested at the dev forum, too - but .... how to ensure that such a jumphole is only used for the purpose of the BHG, and not as some shortcut for smugglers, traders - and whatnot. - if we beefed up the BHG guards ( let them fly battlecruisers and mantas in 56 ) - they could at least make sure that it cannot be used as a shortcut for the common smuggler - but even so.... gaining BHG faction isn t eactly hard .. even guard faction is a cakewalk, cause all you need to do is kill unlawfuls.
and even so - that does not get rid of the odd BHG player ( or any other player ) that likes to camp their enemies places for the sake of pvp only. - and i am certain, that those players would do so even if they were junkers or zoners. - its not that they can be sanctioned about it - the issue is to get rid of the annoyance as such. - while at the same time offer incentives for a serious BHG roleplay.
if we could make "one-way" jumpholes, it would be nice to have one from 56 to a remote part of delta - but not backwards.... but i daresay, thats not possible.
To the first post... "Write up a sanction report." (admins are needed elsewhere aswell)
Donate to the Poor Pilot's Fundation via Sirius Bank /givecash GreenHawk 1000000 now, and support poor pilots sirius wide!
Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk
Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.
There is the need of a public discussion and knowlege about these things.
This incident at Crete is just the tip of the mess.
A simple sancion report don't get it.
The problem is that a lot of obvious new players are abusing the liberty regarding role-play the Bounty Hunters got in general.
There is in fact a Sirius wide PvP whoring group killing every pirate and smuggler. Doing so they are destroying all the roleplay.
And again: What happend with the consensus that a Bounty Hunter only do kill for a fee?
A simple change to the rules and these guys can do thier PvP whoring in Bastille.
' Wrote:next time it happens ill go on my bh bc and kill them, dock raping = against rules, so if they're allowed too break em... why arent we?:D
Its this kind of attitude that gets us into these situations. Punishing someone who is breaking a rule by breaking a rule yourself doesn't get anyone anywhere. It simply makes the problem that much bigger, gives the admins more work, and you get yourself sanctioned when the BH BCs report you for an OORP attack, and for attacking an NPC ally without reason or warning.
' Wrote:...
how to ensure that such a jumphole is only used for the purpose of the BHG, and not as some shortcut for smugglers, traders - and whatnot. - if we beefed up the BHG guards ( let them fly battlecruisers and mantas in 56 ) - they could at least make sure that it cannot be used as a shortcut for the common smuggler - but even so.... gaining BHG faction isn t eactly hard .. even guard faction is a cakewalk, cause all you need to do is kill unlawfuls.
...
You can't ensure that unless players establish a presence in the guard system. However, that wouldn't be a problem exclusive to the BHG. Halle (for example) is used daily (even by Bounty Hunters themselves) as a shortcut to Rheinland.
' Wrote:...
and even so - that does not get rid of the odd BHG player ( or any other player ) that likes to camp their enemies places for the sake of pvp only. - and i am certain, that those players would do so even if they were junkers or zoners. - its not that they can be sanctioned about it - the issue is to get rid of the annoyance as such. - while at the same time offer incentives for a serious BHG roleplay.
...
Well, at least the argument becomes void. Today, if a BHG battleship is questioned for loitering in House space, its captain might as well retort that he's merely "passing through". If such an alternative path is provided, they can't use that as an excuse.
' Wrote:...
if we could make "one-way" jumpholes, it would be nice to have one from 56 to a remote part of delta - but not backwards.... but i daresay, thats not possible.
...
Yep there is oorp - i pvt chat and try to coach them....
Yep there are BH caps coming in and doing silly things, usually if enough corsairs are available they die, if they dont, they get half an hour of cheap thrills and they go away.
This is just another "outraged" thread about a phenomena that's another "flash in the pan" and which will go away, if its not BH this week, next week it will be Outcasts, and the next week after, it will be Corsairs, after that, you'll have another faction targeted, probably, then it will go away....
All these "outreageous" behaviors fade away, ive been here 8 months, i cant count how many of these "ZOMG!!!! CAPWHORE/OORP/DOCKRAPING/ARRGHHHHLARGEHADRONCOLLIDER" threads have existed and they all amount to nothing more than wasted efforts, complaints, bad blood, impotent frustration.....
and then it all blows over until the next "ZOMG!!!" comes along...
Im starting to just ignore it, so what, someone else does something stupid, big deal, RP around it - if you cant, you're probably on the wrong server, and if that ruins your day.... log off, do something else, come back later.
Hello, welcome to disco, like real life, it has brilliant people who will make your experience awesome, and also like real life, its populated by morons....
Ignore the morons, they always come in waves, not worth the hype.
Jinx... I know this is vaguely off topic, but I have minor nitpick with this section of your otherwise extremely good post.
' Wrote:BHG caps exist, they have much more RP base than most other capital ships ( dragons, corsairs, outcasts ) - they have a disco lore about being at war ( the only other lore about such a great conflict in the entire of disco is kusari / bretonia )
The OC and Corsairs are also at war, with each other. Of course there would be an arms race between them, thats only natural.
Both are well funded, warlike and agressive, both are large and powerful enough to build the ships, and both have need of them...
I don't quite see what you're talking about with this.
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