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Bear · 12-18-2009, 01:22 AM,

' Wrote:Sorry bear but as one of OPG high ranking members I can testify that we tried for a long long time. Opening that faction feedback was one of the most necessary evils we had to do.

and then all the whine poured in and few encouraging notes from true friends and players. While touching, not encouraging to continue at all.

Might I ask just what did you try? What did you set out to do? OPG Ivan, I have complete respect for you and Where did it ran and everyone else here but I have a sneaking suspicion that you have done something wrong.

Exsiled_one · 12-18-2009, 01:36 AM,

actually no, we rounded up alot of indie corsairs and taught them rp. those that made it from rats to marauders know how to roleplay now and i'll say without false modesty that i'm a good tutor on most things corsair, and where I fail others pick up.

look at it from this direction: get pirated by an newbie with low rp skills that belongs to the faction. wouldn't you complain? But they have just started and we'ld rather pick them up than leave them there.

I AM GIVING AWAY MONEY TO CREATIVE MINDS*

Bear · 12-18-2009, 01:51 AM,

' Wrote:actually no, we rounded up alot of indie corsairs and taught them rp. those that made it from rats to marauders know how to roleplay now and i'll say without false modesty that i'm a good tutor on most things corsair, and where I fail others pick up.

look at it from this direction: get pirated by an newbie with low rp skills that belongs to the faction. wouldn't you complain? But they have just started and we'ld rather pick them up than leave them there.

Well it seems I've jumped to conclusions yet again. I wouldn't exactly complain about the newbie, I'd be more cross at the faction for taking him in without teaching him the necessary skills. Thanks for clearing this up for me Ivan, I have misjudged your handling of the faction and I am deeply sorry for wasting your time. So now that we have ruled out that the problem was the faction (In this case), just what was the problem? I'm going to put it down to the Outcast/Corsair war. It draws people (as you put it lolwut's) because there is a very high chance of PvP all day. What are your thoughts?

Exsiled_one · 12-18-2009, 01:57 AM,

mostly people don't know how to approach piracy
they're new...
they CD someone and he stops
they're all excited
then they do something silly...

thats all that i tried to stop.
my basic corsair tutleage is...

Why do corsairs pirate?
What do corsairs pirate
Why did corsairs start to pirate
do corsairs really eat their own now?
What to do when you're insulted
what to do with zoners
what to do with contraband
how to act in piracy

after that, they're on their own and 60% of them does not listen to what I said well.

I AM GIVING AWAY MONEY TO CREATIVE MINDS*

Bear · 12-18-2009, 02:28 AM,

' Wrote:mostly people don't know how to approach piracy
they're new...
they CD someone and he stops
they're all excited
then they do something silly...

thats all that i tried to stop.
my basic corsair tutleage is...

Why do corsairs pirate?
What do corsairs pirate
Why did corsairs start to pirate
do corsairs really eat their own now?
What to do when you're insulted
what to do with zoners
what to do with contraband
how to act in piracy

after that, they're on their own and 60% of them does not listen to what I said well.

Well, you have done all that you could by the looks of things. Seems that these people just don't understand. Now that I am in the know with what has been done (and I'm guessing that this case reflects what other factions have done) I'm gonna have to say that factions should get as much power as they need. They should act as different bodies controlling Discovery like an engine.

Here is my plan: This plan is a total over haul of the current system.

Every faction is a part of the engine, without a part the engine won't go (So if there is a faction with nobody in it then it let's not only them down but those factions with which it RP's with). The Admins sole job will be to keep factions in check and hand out sanctions and other administrative tasks. The factions will decide who gets capital class vessels, who does what and the other stuff mentioned before. Admins will not be the deciding factor in SRP's the community will post in the thread and if there is an overwhelming support for yes/no that will be the decision put forward to the faction(s) in which the ship is coming from (the faction then decides whether they agree with the community or not, the final decision will be that of the factions in which the SRP is concerned).

Factions will be obligated to let people join the faction unless the person is proved to be unworthy or a person that cannot be trusted with the responsibility that faction has. Factions will reserve the right to be able to have the administration adjust the rep/ID/ship of a member of the faction (indie or official). This adjustment must be the result of a thorough investigation and be posted on the forums with proof of evidence (ie: screen shots of the person doing the wrong thing). Independents must submit a request to the official factions leaders if they want to purchase a capital ship. Included in this request will be their story, reasons why they want the capital ship and also answers to questions that the faction will provide (example: What would you do in this situation?). The official faction reserves the right to take away the cap ship from independents and faction members alike.

You see, official factions and indies can co-exist but if the indies (and even the official member) want a cap they will have to work for the privilege. This will not wipe out indies but will keep them in line and also provide a much needed member boost to official factions. This is just what I was thinking, discuss.

Tales23 · 12-18-2009, 04:29 AM,

Let's not turn this into a Pirate Rant, I'll say one thing as a Pirate who only asks for credits after you try to run and I stop you if you comply and actually roleplay I'll find an excuse to let you go but if you don't than I won't bother wasting my time on you.

' Wrote:Good, A great start. Perhaps all factions could do this.

This could be one bonus (incentive) for indies to join official factions. ... I still am lost on what else we could do to make them more attractive without increasing their power.

You generalize too much just because a few factions are jerks doesn't mean ALL of them are there are a lot of factions that share their ships and such.

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n00bl3t · 12-18-2009, 04:45 AM,

' Wrote:Nooblet there is a problem with your reasoning here. Have you ever tried to organize an official event? If not I'll tell you, it's a pain in the ass. You have a couple dozen people you have organize and coordinate with and make sure everyone is there (which they never are), and then there is the hour of skype calls and pm's calling in the people that forgot or are late. Then when your event finally gets started and random indies start showing up and ruining it, it's FAR too late to do something about it.

By that point the event is already ruined, hours of work and days or even weeks of waiting ruined. Sure you can report them and they get a slap on the wrist. Big deal. It's kicking an already dead horse.

Say what you want about official factions already having enough power, that's nonsense. Right now any official faction in game is outnumbered at least 3 to 1 by indies in game at any given moment. Some will cooperate with RP, most will not. Usually the indies that do cooperate are ones that are also in official factions, like yourself, or me, or others that have been around a while and have both idies and official faction characters.

As leader of the Black Dragon Society I will use my faction as an example here. What exactly can you do as a Hogosha indie that you aren't allowed to do as a Black Dragon? Where are the benefits to being an indie? Cause I sure can't see them. The Black Dragons are a pretty laid back faction, we have very few RP restrictions on anything our players can and can't do. The restrictions we have are nothing more than the ones an indie would have due to RP. Secondly, all those indies usually provide nothing except chaos. They can't be called on easily for help when Kusari is under attack, when you do manage to call them in most of them don't listen to orders in battle which is needed for any hope of success. As indies they have no easy method of asking RP questions when they come up against a situation that they don't know how to handle so mistakes get made and they end up getting sanctions for things that could easily be avoided. All this and many more are reasons for why they should join the official faction.
Call it what you like nooblet, call me a person that has no power in real life so I need this to get my rocks off ordering people around in game. Call me insecure, call me a child... All the typical responses to official factions wanting more "power". Frankly I get tired of the old indie/faction debate. Every time this kind of issue is raised for factions, you and a select few other players go on a rampage to prevent it. Why? I don't know. Seems to me that I'm not the one with authority issues here.

I have nothing against indies in particular. I have a lot of indie characters myself. And sure there is an appeal to it, you have no boss, no one to give you orders, no one to answer to. You go where you want and do what you want and only have to answer to yourself and the admins. However, indies to lack one huge issue. A sense of community. They usually don't hang out with friends and work together to accomplish goals. There is no pride in promoting the goals and deeds of "[insert tag here]". Most indies fly around alone or with one other person and do what they will. Sure there is a place for that. But the factions need more love too.

How many "random indies" show up to a Hogosha event in the quite dead Kusari? (I am curious, I know that as a person with Order and BHG| characters, it is quite a problem in the Omicrons, but people usually stay out of the battles when people contact them in private and have a stern word.)

There is a slight flaw in your reasoning for the want of more power. If someone disrupts an event an Administrator will give them a "slap on the wrist". If someone is continuously disrupting events the Administrators will come down harsher on them. By gaining more power, if an independent shows up and "ruins" an event, what will your power do? It is still going to be delayed usage of power, right? Your event will still be "ruined" right?

Independents outnumber factions. A jerk is still a jerk regardless of what tag he wears or what ship he flies.

Cooperation by me is not guaranteed. (You earn it, "OLOLOL". In all seriousness though, you do.)

If you remember from our Skype conversations, I wanted to join [|]. In the end, I ended up not doing so. The reasons were quite simple. I was stretched too thin to contribute.

I questioned your motives for wanting power, when you can already deal with the problem with the power you have. I also stated why your power is adequate and how it is adequate. You, on the other hand come here with independents don't know this and don't know that, belittle administration punishment for offences, trivialise my question instead of answering it, accuse me of going on a rampage and having authority issues. I am obviously the evil one wanting to destroy Discovery here.

That is why people choose to be an independent. You follow the rules and answer to the Administration. That is all you should have to do to play on the server. People need not have to have pride in promoting an acronym in brackets. Ultimately, we are here to have fun. Role-playing just happens to be how we have fun.

You accuse independents of lacking a sense of community, yet, you can see some of us in this thread opposing more powers to factions. That is but one aspect of our "community". It is right before your eyes, but yet, you do not see it.

If someone does not want to join a faction, they will not. Regardless of whatever changes you make to force them. Appease their mind, do not try to force their hand.

' Wrote:7: And finally, Cannon's post was to ask for rewards for the effort of the factions and faction members. Unlike the Independants, who are unwilling (Thier own words, I can go get quotes) to put the effort into making Discovery a deep and diverse role playing environment, the factions and faction memebers are constantly striving to do this very thing. Extra effort deserves rewards, and for the factions and thier members to recieve a reward, they must perforce, recieve some things the Independants do not.

Suck it up Independants, you have stated you are unwilling to put forth the effort to role play and follow the rules. You cannot cry then, when the other players who will do these things get better toys. What can we do to make Discovery better? We can follow the rules and ROLE PLAY. If you can't be bothered to do that, go to one of the Non-Rp servers, stop ruining ours.

I thought about responding to how independents contribute and have contributed in the past, but I think it would be best just to move along.

Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

Reverend Del · 12-18-2009, 05:07 AM,

I just want to say, I will not stand for forcing independents to be anything other than independent, faction membership IS a choice and will always remain so.

I don't want official factions to have more power, I want there to be a reward for them doing what we ask of them, corporeal rewards, shiny things. Something that says thank you for the hard work they are expected to put in by us, the Admins.

Independents are an integral part of this server, where factions toe the NPC line, independents add spice and diversity to Discovery and they should be protected, sure the idiots need punting, but let's not be tarring all independents as idiots, eh?

RoS, LN, OPG, LR all of these factions and more have accepted rank amateurs into their ranks to help these folks improve their game and attitude. Because someone has to. But if they don't feel the love for a faction they won't join simple as. There's a reason I've never played a Gaian, I just don't like them.

So if you want to help Discovery, then do so by education and information, running to us every time a newbie does something wrong or demanding that we hunt down and destroy all indies isn't the solution.

Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

Sprolf · (This post was last modified: 12-18-2009, 05:11 AM by Sprolf.)

Just use me and my character the Doctor as an example of (ORDER) indies to destroy any arguments against having indies.

Or use Dara O'Gara of the Mollies as an example.

Or The Laughing Man of the Lane Hackers.

Etc... there are many more.

There's good indies out there.
If you can't see them, you're not looking.

Shryke · 12-18-2009, 06:27 AM,

Quote:Suck it up Independants, you have stated you are unwilling to put forth the effort to role play and follow the rules. You cannot cry then, when the other players who will do these things get better toys. What can we do to make Discovery better? We can follow the rules and ROLE PLAY. If you can't be bothered to do that, go to one of the Non-Rp servers, stop ruining ours.

How about reading comprehension 101?

Independents do not like faction rules, like stay in a Mk.1 light fighter until we say so, do this and do that and you might be considered for a promotion to a mk.1 HF (ooooooh, fancy). No one ever said anything about not following server rules.

Don't place retarded restrictions on new players joining your factions and you might get more people into them.

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