Actually it is, he docked on a base, not a planet. Had he docked with a planet that would have been mentioned. And some of the RP explanations could have been applied.
That said the trader in question didn't attempt to RP at all, no explanation as to how he could have docked with the base. There was no RP from him at all.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
I'm not arguing that this specific sanction is wrong, but I am suggesting that more thought be given to the nature of a smuggler's operation, and the 'roleplay' bits of the game mechanic that forces us to the mooring fixture.
' Wrote:Okay, you try to land on a planet using the Docking ring or atmospheric entry. Even if you did enter the atmosphere without the ring you would have to go very slowly to avoid burning up, giving the law plenty of time to dispatch atmospheric patrol craft to intercept.
Have I mentioned that my ships don't have much trouble coasting through stars at much higher speeds then one would try to land on anything at? And that stars are denser than planetary atmospheres, aside from the fact that they happen to be fusion engines...Again, my ship doesn't have too much trouble dealing with stars for short periods, and you're trying to tell me that a terrestrial planet is going to be threatening? I rather think not.
Atmospheric patrol craft, also, I expect would have a hard time catching a spacecraft at any sort of reentry speeds, and I also expect that they'd likely never be dispatched, citing the corruption prevelant on liberty space. Hence, when the smuggler undocks, he finds the PC ready to shoot him, but probably not the rest of the system, because most of the military doesn't fall under the direct chain of command of the PC pilot(in most cases it isn't an admiral, guys, especially if its a fighter). What I suspect happens is that these pilots defy orders to get back to work, waiting on their mark to come out, and that is why the rest of the LPI (in this case) is not sitting on top of the site, doing it to. The organization has been paid off, is complicit in the crime, or has decided that it isn't worth it to prosecute, when they've -lost the evidence-. A single pilot is easily discredited.
' Wrote:I'm a bit bothered by the assumption that large ships cannot land on a planet, because the docking ring cannot hold them. The size of a ship really shouldn't have anything to do with its capability to land, and please do not cite g forces....Acceleration and turning, in open space, would create more than enough G to tear any ship that could not stand reentry apart. If my Atrain can surf a star, it can certianly handle a planet. As such, I often treat the Mooring Fixture as if it were not there, as if my ship were simply entering the atmosphere for a secluded port, with all the support of my buyers, an organization that is selling many thousands of units of cardmine, and on a rather corrupt world (in the case of manhattan), I expect such a buyer to be able to divert any pursuit.
Just because the only way the game allows one to land is the mooring fixture, please don't assume thats the only way to land.
a completely valid point. Just becuase the game mechanics of freelancer are limited to a very high degree (even after alot of stuff the devs for various mods do, they havent reached the tip of the iceberg, so to speak), doesnt mean that we should all assume that there is only one method of landing on planets. remember this too, freelancer's (discovery in this case too) ships are not correctly scaled as compared to how they should be. all the ships are -huge- as compared to the planet sizes. just becuase a ship 'looks' big, doesnt mean that it cant land on a planet. As Unselie put it, "if the Atrain can surf a star, it can certainly handle a planet".
furthermore, if everytime a lawful says to someone "stop", and they happily ignore that command and dock, and they end up getting sanctioned for it, is kinda stupid. the only reason the sanction report was put in was because the RM in question failed to catch the guy because he quick docked (agreed, thats an exploit, but regardless. if the pilot docked with a base even in slow dock, once the cutscene starts, you cant harm them ANYWAY, so making the point that they quick docked to escape null).
Everytime i log on, ive seen smugglers run for it and dock on manhatten, or texas, or the like, becuase they escaped the law who were'nt quick enough to catch them. thats called luck. the cops, even in RL, do sometimes lose their suspects, and theres nothing they can do about it except keep trying to search for him. ofcourse, you could RP that your radio'ing the ground forces, telling them about the smuggler bringing the contraband in, and to keep a sharp eye out for it, but once the smuggler lands, theres nothing you can do about it. hell, you get MORE than enough time from the time he jumps to the system to the time he docks to catch him, and kill him if necessary.
Im sorry admins, but this is a really stupid reason to sanction someone. doing such stuff when it can be ignored is basically incrementing your work load for no reason at all. and yes, im in the RM chat, and i know the details of the sanction report, but will not comment on it further (on that note, no offence to anyone, specially the reportee [you know who you are]).
' Wrote:Clutch those straws any tighter and you'll cut your hands.
Care to explain your point here? I don't follow what you're getting at?
Quote:If you're a Corsair and the person you're getting ur 2 milz plox from docks on a Junker base, well, that's a horse of a different color isn't it?
Well ... here we have our contradiction. What's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander. It seems this rule is only sanctionable for unlawfuls.
Thanks Dusty ... now I understand "clearly."
EDIT: By the way ... I only ask for 500k ... and I role play to the kilt. More than you'll get from most pirates.
Frozen. We've already stated that just saying stop doesn't cut it. It;s also been stated that there was no RP at all from the trader. Not a word. This was a justified sanction, the RP rules are not there just for convenience after all.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
' Wrote:Actually it is, he docked on a base, not a planet. Had he docked with a planet that would have been mentioned. And some of the RP explanations could have been applied.
Okay then, change my example of Planet Crete to Tripoli shipyard. I still believe that the rules are hideously broken if thats the case.
At the end of the day, the rule quoted is one of the broadest there are. Add in that "roleplay" and its many forms are always up for constant debate, since its very subjective. If you can properly define "roleplay" and everyone agrees, then it could maybe be a rule. Since it hasn't and cannot been defined to fit everyones idea of roleplay, there should only be sanctions for the most blatant cases of infractions, which this case was not.
Also, the first time we hear about a rule shouldnt be when someone gets sanctioned for it.
I also completely agree with Frozen. Admins should not enforce house law when the locals fail in their duties.
I find such methods to enter in conflict with RP indeed. But being a lawful myself, for the last year and a few months, I don't really waste much time about them. I put them on KOS, or warn everyone that he must be fined. I sometime put bounties too, but that is quite rare.
They'll die out of misery... Or, they will buy their shiny lil cap toy, which I will have an immense pleasure to dismantle
' Wrote:Does this sanction mean that all the people speed-docking with Manhattan with a full load of cardimine are out of roleplay and are liable to get all their credits taken away if told to stop (which often includes dieing) by (in this case) the Liberty law? This happens a lot right now, and even more in the past, so this is why I bring up this particular example.
What about a smuggler being chased by the law into Zone 21, and docking with the Alaska gate? Do they get sanctioned if they dock with it? After all, its controlled by the law in the same way, if not more, than the docking ring or mooring fixture of a planet.
Does this sanction also mean that all the people speed-docking with a base with legal cargo (by server rules, so perhaps Plutonium) are out of roleplay and are liable to get all their credits taken away if told to stop by any law?
Del has the final say on the matter, and yes, if you dock with a "lawful" planet while lawful authorities demand you to stop, common sense dictates that is OORP. "Dieing" does not occur when you roleplay your character correctly, see you have nowhere to go and release your cargo. Of course, unless there are some triggerhappy people on site. In an MMO server you have to accept - within reason - some people are not up to your standards and others exceed it.
Since this topic provides a possibility, I'd like to refer to to the same section 6.2 in the server rules. I see a lot of people carrying contraband while having a Trader ID, while a Smuggler ID is also available (and makes it possible to trade AND smuggle).
I cannot say I'm an authority on the matter, but the way I play it on the server, a Trader ID with contraband is targeted by lawfuls ("that's CONTRABAND") AND unlawfuls ("that's OUR STUFF"). Your life gets easier if you fix your ID and, in this case, dock with the bases your character in the game would. If you had contraband, why do you try to take it to a planet governed by lawful authorities, when almost every system has unlawful bases for this kind of business, which is almost always done in secrecy.
Abusing the game engine and docking to a lawful planet while surrounded by lawfuls indeed is OORP, and sanctionable. I think carrying contraband while not having an unlawful/smuggler ID is also, but well, a lot of guys have a good excuse to abuse these uneducated people. If the admins take the money away, my character would get none. I think other players' characters reacting naturally in-RP to an unnatural OORP character of another is good for the community. And hey, if the other player really doesn't hack it, you can always report it as a final solution.
Since we're on this subject ... maybe a little off ... but for the matter of mercenaries in Liberty. The LN (a player faction) has declared them banned (with some exceptions). So ... are we going to sanction mercenaries for docking on Manhattan? According to role play ... admins would be enforcing "faction law" and NOT "server rules" if they sanctioned the mercenary. Same would go for all those other "faction laws" such as Kusari's ban on exporting Plutonium, Engine Components and other techs, Liberty's embargo on all goods from Rheinland.
I hope the admins have a lot of free time on their hands ... cause they're about to get a slew of violation reports to deal with. Are these sanctions ONLY going to occur for vanilla Freelancer contraband (only those commodities an NPC would stop someone for ... Cardamine, Artifacts, etc)? Or are sanctions also gonna be imposed for those carrying "player faction declared contraband"? If so ... I hope you guys keep up with what each faction declares as contraband.
By the way ... my pirate in Sigma 13 considers Prisoners and Military Equipment as contraband.
' Wrote:The LN (a player faction) has declared them banned (with some exceptions). So ... are we going to sanction mercenaries for docking on Manhattan? According to role play ... admins would be enforcing "faction law" and NOT "server rules" if they sanctioned the mercenary.
Hey?
a) admins frown upon OORP docking
b) when no RP characters are preventing, no one sees you dock
In this case mercenaries are denied by LN, not the admins. Manhattan is free food if no one gets to witness it. If you're surrounded by LN, commanded to halt and dock on a Liberty base that's bad. You dig? Common sense?
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