Trading sucks now...

[Baltar]

Our sole purpose here is RP, not mindless working away while trading. Most people who trade also try to RP, and for the sake of some random oorp idiots, I don't want to have to trade a whole day just to make another char, and don't want to trade for a month in order to get a cap with a reasonable armor. I just don't, and won't.
Only thing keeping me away from RPing capital ships is the lack of willpower to trade away my life into emptiness.

Every aspect of the game needs to be fun, and trading should not be considered as work, and when you see the ever increasing prices, and the ever decreasing means of earning money, you kinda tend to consider it work, and not just other RP.

I agree with you about those that are in RP taking these routes. But there's just WAY too many (more than you'd care to admit) that do this very thing ... trade away for a week or two and then go straight for the heaviest firepower know to Disco. Then they go bullying everyone else that ACTUALLY spent months or years building up their characters background and role play. I'm just sick of noob cap bully's ruining everyone ELSE's role play experience.

i must agree, we pay for mistakes made by new comers who "I want a BattleShip", there were many suggesting to fix that problem. Now all of us have to Work hard to create more chars that we want to enjoy. Keeping new players from capital ships on their first weeks in game is a good thing but us paying such a heavy price. There must be something that can be done, even if we did get a Zoner Guard IFF and ID got a 5k ship still be making 0.5 less per time than last mod build.
Anyone?

I believe there was a discussion about this a while back ... place all cap ships in guard systems and force the purchaser to be 100% green with that guard faction to be able to buy the thing. And we do NOT need multiple bribes to make people go solid green with these factions. That would solve nothing. We can make trading easy ... no issue there ... we just gotta make it tough to buy these ships. You MUST have the reputation solid green (100%) with a "guard" faction to buy them. I think this would be an acceptable solution.

[Weedalot]

Honey with the banks you have I'd expect you to be the last to complain.

The profit is still there to be made, take advantage of the all time low piracy rates.

where do we know each other from? my banks are not the only banks that needs to be field.

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♠ Because we can ♠

[Weedalot]

I believe there was a discussion about this a while back ... place all cap ships in guard systems and force the purchaser to be 100% green with that guard faction to be able to buy the thing. And we do NOT need multiple bribes to make people go solid green with these factions. That would solve nothing. We can make trading easy ... no issue there ... we just gotta make it tough to buy these ships. You MUST have the reputation solid green (100%) with a "guard" faction to buy them. I think this would be an acceptable solution.

yes i agree, Make it harder to get but dont make everyone suffer for cap spam. and for the cap spam there is a great solution the Bombah Spam Bomberman Rulez:)

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♠ Because we can ♠

[swift]

Yes true, the capital ship problem is sometimes a pain, but I don't notice it too much. And answering spam with spam is not they way to go, Weedalot.
Plus you do not always have a squadron of allies to help you..

Just one note, I do understand the motives behind lowering profits, but let's not take it too far, shall we?
And also I'd prefer that mining was at least 80% the profit trading offers. We need multiple ways of earning money.
Anyways, make long term circular routes profitable, so people can do them. I remember 4.84, while people powertraded diamond niobium, I did my circular Sirius routes, had fun, had RP, and had a lot of profits.

Anyways, I really don't know myself what my opinion is, whether the advantages outnumber the disadvantages of nerfing trade in general..
But to be frank, the current way of trade is not that bad, it allows profits, and reasonable ones.

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<span style="color:#33FF33">CFF Communication Channel and RP Collection</span>

[Weedalot]

Yes true, the capital ship problem is sometimes a pain, but I don't notice it too much. And answering spam with spam is not they way to go, Weedalot.
Plus you do not always have a squadron of allies to help you..

Just one note, I do understand the motives behind lowering profits, but let's not take it too far, shall we?
And also I'd prefer that mining was at least 80% the profit trading offers. We need multiple ways of earning money.
Anyways, make long term circular routes profitable, so people can do them. I remember 4.85, while people powertraded diamond niobium, I did my circular Sirius routes, had fun, had RP, and had a lot of profits.

Anyways, I really don't know myself what my opinion is, whether the advantages outnumber the disadvantages of nerfing trade in general..
But to be frank, the current way of trade is not that bad, it allows profits, and reasonable ones.

you are just contradicting yourself. The trade is not that profitable Time/Money.
What does the word "spam" means isnt it those mails that have no meaning?:lol:i didnt send you any if you wonder.

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♠ Because we can ♠

[Baltar]

yes i agree, Make it harder to get but dont make everyone suffer for cap spam. and for the cap spam there is a great solution the Bombah Spam Bomberman Rulez:)

I don't wanna have to buy a bomber to deal with these guys. And spamming bombers to go after spamming battleships just turns a role play server into a PVP server. I don't think we need that. Just make the cap ships harder to get and we'll be good.

Yes true, the capital ship problem is sometimes a pain, but I don't notice it too much. And answering spam with spam is not they way to go, Weedalot.
Plus you do not always have a squadron of allies to help you..

Just one note, I do understand the motives behind lowering profits, but let's not take it too far, shall we?
And also I'd prefer that mining was at least 80% the profit trading offers. We need multiple ways of earning money.
Anyways, make long term circular routes profitable, so people can do them. I remember 4.85, while people powertraded diamond niobium, I did my circular Sirius routes, had fun, had RP, and had a lot of profits.

Anyways, I really don't know myself what my opinion is, whether the advantages outnumber the disadvantages of nerfing trade in general..
But to be frank, the current way of trade is not that bad, it allows profits, and reasonable ones.

Totally agree with you here ... mining should DEFINITELY be more profitable. In my opinion ... mining should be AS profitable if not MORE than trading. And role play is preserved with mining. With larger ships it would take a while to actually mine the minerals ... more time than simply docking, purchasing and flying off. You'd actually have to spend time in a mineral field collecting the stuff and then flying off. It would mean more to you when you got stopped by a pirate as well so you're less likely to just should "kill me its cheaper." Not to mention the Miner ID would mean something.

And I think you meant 4.84, right?

[obnoxious1]

Totally agree with you here ... mining should DEFINITELY be more profitable. In my opinion ... mining should be AS profitable if not MORE than trading. And role play is preserved with mining. With larger ships it would take a while to actually mine the minerals ... more time than simply docking, purchasing and flying off. You'd actually have to spend time in a mineral field collecting the stuff and then flying off. It would mean more to you when you got stopped by a pirate as well so you're less likely to just should "kill me its cheaper." Not to mention the Miner ID would mean something.

And I think you meant 4.84, right?

I disagree that mining should be more profitable than trading. I could settle with equal to, but some systems & houses do not have the option for mining & would cause an unfair balance for those wishing to play that character role. Having one better than the other would result in a drop in players from one character choice due to profits that could be made. Make it an equal balance & things should work out good.

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Outcast Laws Outcast Reference Outcast Registry SOB / BLS Recruiting

[Baltar]

I disagree that mining should be more profitable than trading. I could settle with equal to, but some systems & houses do not have the option for mining & would cause an unfair balance for those wishing to play that character role. Having one better than the other would result in a drop in players from one character choice due to profits that could be made. Make it an equal balance & things should work out good.

How about this ... make mining competitive with trade. Since you cannot mine certain items such as human cargo, consumer goods, prisoners and such ... those trades would be unaffected. BUT ... when it comes to commodities that can be mined ... those items would bring in more profit if actually mined. This is going to happen either way since in trade you'd have to first purchase the cargo and resell it somewhere else ... whereas if you mine it it costs you nothing but your time. What I'd propose is raise the value of mined goods. Specifically ... the farther you have to ferry these mined elements the more you make. Since Gold is predominantly in Dublin and its surroundings ... moving Gold to the opposite corner of Sirius would net you 2000 creds per unit (5000 units x 2000 creds = 10 mil). And you'd have to contend with the Molly / BMM conflictr over the mineral rights ... which adds to the role play ... maybe you would have to pay a modest 500k for the right to mine Gold there. Same with gases, scrap metal, etc.

[cmfalconer]

On Trading:
Well, I'm not sure how trading's been affected yet, as I haven't actually traded anything yet in this mod. I've converted my trading ship - In RP - into an exploration ship, and I am currently flying everywhere in Sirius docking on every single base that I can looking for those routes.

Now back in the "good old days" of 4.84, I'd fly the circuit routes and visit all the houses. It was fun, got me about 20m an hour, and a chance to visit a lot of different places. I would occasionally do an A <-> B route, but not for too long, and usually only if I had 1/2 hour to play or such. These just weren't as rewarding in the long run either.

Now with these "In RP" trade circuits, there's supposed to be more opportunity for encounters to mean something. Baltar, however, hit the nail on the head.

1. We'll see how inRP it is when pirates set up along that route ... if the traders role play with the pirates ... then we'll consider it RP. If they just go about their business as if it were the Diamond/Niobium Run all over again ... then I'll have to disagree with your position it is inRP.

This is what will define RP trading. The routes will only offer what Unselie explained, higher-value money. Before, credits didn't mean a whole lot, as evidenced by the drastic increase in battleship prices from 4.83 (yes, been around a while). Did this stop the battleships from coming out? (or cruisers, or other large vessels)? No, it didn't, because credits were incredibly easy to get. Personally, I've got a fortune that, unless I start buying capital ships, I'll almost never use, and that's from trading maybe 5 hours a month.

Now, just from the little flying around I've done so far, credits are worth a LOT more now, and consequently, so are those big ships...except to those that already have them. (But that's another thread.) I would, in my opinion, state that those who've been whining that their A<->B routes are gone, or that trading sucks now, or whatever are the ones whom the spirit of this huge undetaking is lost upon. "Fixing" the trade system, laying it out logically and also fairly, is not just a colossal undertaking, but something that even the original game developers didn't really do (go look at vanilla sometime).

So I say kudos to the entire team that has, up till now, dealt with a thankless job of trying to make our little game world better, and the whinging of the very people they've tried to help, all for the "4.85 dev team" userbar and a sense of satisfaction that comes from a job done well...and well done it was.

On Mining
Mining is something of a mystery. Everyone constantly says "mining should be as/more profitable as trading." Ok, how would you do this? Raise the sell price at destinations? How would this help mining be more profitable?

Mining, if we extrapolate what the NPCs do and apply it to players, is taking a ship (be it big or small), blowing up little rocks for the goodies inside, filling the aforementioned ship's hold, and selling it for a price.

Now, NPCs would be bringing their haul to the closest station of their faction...aka Java, Briesen, etc. these have LOW prices because that's where the supply is. If the player wanted to make it more profitable, they'd fly to the destination farther away that uses the mineral they've harvested (Niobium to Leipzig ex.).

My feeling is that the buy price for traders from this station is the balance/compensation for the miner's taking the time to harvest the mineral. The trader's going to make less money, but overall, does it even out (or closely even out)? This is another facet to look at when someone says "mining's not profitable".

$.02

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[jimmy Patterson]

ok aqpprently my rp can nolonger work as apprently now indie trdrs are limited to below 3800 my questions are WHY

and what can i replace my container transport with again preferably keeping max cargo yet staying indie and roleplaying (as i said before a busted IMG iff)

if someone can PM me the answers as i hardly monoter threads like this id be greatful

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kudos tommeh for sig