if 5 smaller ships can take him out and the sum of their cost doesnt reach the cap ship value, why anybody should build a Battleship? if the fighters and bombers and can carry weapons capable mass destruccion and does not have range limitations, and only needs 1 pilot to control them.
The only way that makes the BS concept a viable idea is making them a all powerfull fighting machine. And the only way to destroy it is making huge coordinate attacks, or facing a similar ship.
How is it a viable idea to base the balance on credit cost? Battleships cost a lot, -because- they take multiple players to take out and need to be restricted (otherwise the majority of the server would pilot them). While people may complain about bombers being overpowered, they can be killed by a single fighter. A battleship requires at minimum two bombers to beat it, and likely three to have much of a chance against it. That is three players just to defeat one, simply because he purchased a more expensive ship. In your proposal, it is not fair for players to be forced to muster 5 + specialised ships just to have a chance to against someone who flies something worth nearly a billion credits.
Capital ships are not obsolete. People need to take time to train their skills, test the weapons, and submit their valid concerns to the development team. Whining about the effectiveness of weapons does not help - test them out more in all different situations and form an opinion based on evidence, not how you got ganked by bomber pilots.
' Wrote:How is it a viable idea to base the balance on credit cost? Battleships cost a lot, -because- they take multiple players to take out and need to be restricted (otherwise the majority of the server would pilot them). While people may complain about bombers being overpowered, they can be killed by a single fighter. A battleship requires at minimum two bombers to beat it, and likely three to have much of a chance against it. That is three players just to defeat one, simply because he purchased a more expensive ship. In your proposal, it is not fair for players to be forced to muster 5 + specialised ships just to have a chance to against someone who flies something worth nearly a billion credits.
Capital ships are not obsolete. People need to take time to train their skills, test the weapons, and submit their valid concerns to the development team. Whining about the effectiveness of weapons does not help - test them out more in all different situations and form an opinion based on evidence, not how you got ganked by bomber pilots.
no..you are wrong here..Battleship is expensive because it can perform different task better than other ships by having different combination of setups....and now...even you mounte 5 flaks and 5 Solaris and 5 Secondaris..and you cant even become an AA ship because enemy are not in range 99% of the time during the fight....so our AA turret's damage are fine..BUT PLZ INCREASE THE WEAPON RANGE!
think about it..an Battleship have loads of flak turrets instead of those big heavy gun..is going to be rape by enemy battleship...but enemy plane will just being shot down like flies..
dont just think bomber must need to rape Battleship...yes..Bomber can rape a Battleship when that Battleship is design to kill another Battleship..but Bomber is going to having extrem hard time against an pro-AA battleship....it's according to the setup..not according to the ship...
What I'm looking for isn't forcing the bomber pilots to swarm in groups of five. What I'm looking for is the ability to destroy those two bombers within a reasonable amount of time (say ten minutes). The only weapon that allows this kind of performance on a larger Battleship is the Razor, and to call this process 'hit or miss' is the understatement of the year. The Razor's power requirement and recharge rate is so high and so low respectively that taking potshots at these bombers is a very difficult process; the gun has to be very close to the bomber, and that's generally about, assuming the bombers have any idea what the letters "WASD" means, under 500 meters, which is a distance the bomber can easily stay out of, and even then a hit is a very, very unsure thing-if your ping is over 100 (and I think most non-European players' pings are indeed so) then you're going to have real issues hitting with the Razors even in your kill zone. Also, by that line, one or even two razors can't cover an entire ship; all a bomber has to do to stay alive is stay towards the end of a cap that doesn't have the razors mounted. So theoretically these two bombers, while they probably can't overwhelm a large Battleship on their own, can bore it to death by flying around in circles and peppering it with SNACs. The Battleship will probably never be able to hit them enough once their shields are down to damage them.
So, since we've obviously established that there is no possibility of BS missiles becoming anti-fighter weapons once again, I would like to see the Solaris made more like the CIWS system we see on modern warships. A higher rate of fire (5.88, ideally) with a proportional damage level and a marginally higher range (1300-1400 meters). This would give lone or only very lightly escorted Heavy Battleships the ability to slowly whittle away those smaller forces of two or so bombers on their own so as not to suffer the metaphorical death by boredom. Three or more bombers would still be able to break the Battleships fairly easily, but those smallest forces wouldn't be able to approach the Battleships unless they had reinforcements coming or a deathwish, and the Battleships wouldn't become near-useless sitting ducks once the caps in a fleet battle are destroyed. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think that's too much to ask for.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
' Wrote:What I'm looking for isn't forcing the bomber pilots to swarm in groups of five. What I'm looking for is the ability to destroy those two bombers within a reasonable amount of time (say ten minutes). The only weapon that allows this kind of performance on a larger Battleship is the Razor, and to call this process 'hit or miss' is the understatement of the year. The Razor's power requirement and recharge rate is so high and so low respectively that taking potshots at these bombers is a very difficult process; the gun has to be very close to the bomber, and that's generally about, assuming the bombers have any idea what the letters "WASD" means, under 500 meters, which is a distance the bomber can easily stay out of, and even then a hit is a very, very unsure thing-if your ping is over 100 (and I think most non-European players' pings are indeed so) then you're going to have real issues hitting with the Razors even in your kill zone. Also, by that line, one or even two razors can't cover an entire ship; all a bomber has to do to stay alive is stay towards the end of a cap that doesn't have the razors mounted. So theoretically these two bombers, while they probably can't overwhelm a large Battleship on their own, can bore it to death by flying around in circles and peppering it with SNACs. The Battleship will probably never be able to hit them enough once their shields are down to damage them.
So, since we've obviously established that there is no possibility of BS missiles becoming anti-fighter weapons once again, I would like to see the Solaris made more like the CIWS system we see on modern warships. A higher rate of fire (5.88, ideally) with a proportional damage level and a marginally higher range (1300-1400 meters). This would give lone or only very lightly escorted Heavy Battleships the ability to slowly whittle away those smaller forces of two or so bombers on their own so as not to suffer the metaphorical death by boredom. Three or more bombers would still be able to break the Battleships fairly easily, but those smallest forces wouldn't be able to approach the Battleships unless they had reinforcements coming or a deathwish, and the Battleships wouldn't become near-useless sitting ducks once the caps in a fleet battle are destroyed. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think that's too much to ask for.
agree..and also for flaks..they suppose to have fairly fast refire for close range flaks (small damage per shot)...the long range flaks has lower refire faster speed (medium damage 1 shot)..just think of 88 flaks made by Germans..
You know, I question the viability of flaks as a defensive measure. When you get right down to it, a dumb-fire explosive shell with a fixed range is obsolete in the face of missiles or tracking turrets. If it were me making all the decisions flak would be a slow, long-range weapon with slightly higher damage numbers used to shell a large fighter battle at long range-essentially providing somewhat indiscriminate fire support.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
Here's the idea I gave to jinx for a possible improvement, but I only put this up as a suggestion for the carrier in particular because it's too large for it's intended point defense weapons to funciton - this kind of improvement on other ships would most definitely cause them to become overpowered.
So, the idea is like so:
Place 8~ or so mine droppers along the length of the carrier, as shown here:
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Now, create a unique capship-only mine as follows:
Hull damage: 10,000
Shield damage: 5000
Projectile Speed (Launch speed from mine droppers): 600 meters per second
Projectile Lifetime (How long the mine exists before self detonating): 1 second
Projectile Explosion Radius: 500 meters
Projectile Refire Rate: 0.5
Projectile Energy Use: 62,500 (so fighters/bombers cant effectively us them)
-No ammo used-
Now, what this would do is, whenever you hit "e" (or whatever your mine dropper button is), the ship would shoot 8 mines outward which would explode once they reach 600 meters away from the ship. They have an explosion radius of 500 meters, so none of the mines would actually damage the ship that launched them - however, it would create a 'wall' of explosions for 1000 meters around the capship which would catch any nearby fighters/bombers with fairly heavy damage.
This would effectively force small ships to stay 1000 meters or further away from the carrier, giving it enough room to have a chance at avoiding supernovas - a chance is all I'm really asking for, as I said I dont expect to kill more than one bomber at a time, but forcing them to stay far enough away where I can dodge a few more snovas and thus live a few minutes longer (and thus have more chances at escaping, having backup arrive, or getting a lucky shot on the bomber).
This is how point defense should work, it should create a zone that no fighter or bomber ever wants to go in. The fighter/bomber is completely safe at 1000m or further away from the capship, and at that distance due to the carrier's size and low strafe speed, most bombers will still be able to land 50% or more of their supernova shots. But, the idiot bombers that get too close get blown up rather quickly. Plus, with the energy use and 8 droppers listed above, it'd take the carrier 500k energy each time it fires, which is 14% of it's overall energy capacity.
' Wrote:Here's the idea I gave to jinx for a possible improvement, but I only put this up as a suggestion for the carrier in particular because it's too large for it's intended point defense weapons to funciton - this kind of improvement on other ships would most definitely cause them to become overpowered.
So, the idea is like so:
Place 8~ or so mine droppers along the length of the carrier, as shown here:
/|\
o|||o
|||
o|||o
|||
o|||o
|||
o|||o
|||
\|/
Now, create a unique capship-only mine as follows:
Hull damage: 10,000
Shield damage: 5000
Projectile Speed (Launch speed from mine droppers): 600 meters per second
Projectile Lifetime (How long the mine exists before self detonating): 1 second
Projectile Explosion Radius: 500 meters
Projectile Refire Rate: 0.5
Projectile Energy Use: 62,500 (so fighters/bombers cant effectively us them)
-No ammo used-
Now, what this would do is, whenever you hit "e" (or whatever your mine dropper button is), the ship would shoot 8 mines outward which would explode once they reach 600 meters away from the ship. They have an explosion radius of 500 meters, so none of the mines would actually damage the ship that launched them - however, it would create a 'wall' of explosions for 1000 meters around the capship which would catch any nearby fighters/bombers with fairly heavy damage.
This would effectively force small ships to stay 1000 meters or further away from the carrier, giving it enough room to have a chance at avoiding supernovas - a chance is all I'm really asking for, as I said I dont expect to kill more than one bomber at a time, but forcing them to stay far enough away where I can dodge a few more snovas and thus live a few minutes longer (and thus have more chances at escaping, having backup arrive, or getting a lucky shot on the bomber).
This is how point defense should work, it should create a zone that no fighter or bomber ever wants to go in. The fighter/bomber is completely safe at 1000m or further away from the capship, and at that distance due to the carrier's size and low strafe speed, most bombers will still be able to land 50% or more of their supernova shots. But, the idiot bombers that get too close get blown up rather quickly. Plus, with the energy use and 8 droppers listed above, it'd take the carrier 500k energy each time it fires, which is 14% of it's overall energy capacity.
yea..the thing is.. as soon as the mines are launched..it tracks you as the closest target so it all runs toward yourself..which is very suicidal..
Not if the Bombers are within flak range currently XD
Mmm... I just had a keeper fighter strafe 300m from my Zoner juggernaut, And That is when flaks RAPE all.
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