Junker/Gallia Connection

[tyro]

After I read this topic, I sent my Junker char to recon in Galia. As I expected, Navy and Police was hostile, but unlawfuls not. This was a strange situation, he had to use jumpholes controlled by unlawfuls, those should be hostile. But he found a storage depot that belongs to Maguis. This was fix the situation fast. I see that reputation in Magius and Brigands and the Council went down fast, to the Corse a little. But Police and Navy went up only a little.
This told me, that junkers position in Galia is much more difficult than in Liberty. Everybody in Galia are unfriendly. Maguis and Brigands are hostile, Concil unfriendly, Corse could be neutral. Police and Navy similar to those in Liberty, could be neutral but not friendly. They use Junkers, but they don't like them.
I don't think Junkers are royal spies, it is absurd for me. Junkers have their own business, don't care about others. Royal or Council it is even. It is necessary to maintain some relations to them, because Junker's businesses need it. The Council controls an entrance to the Galia, The Royal controls middle systems.
I think Junkers could offer some services both sides, as usually they do. Maguis and Brigands are radical pirates, it is not possible to talk with them, so better avoid them. The Corse is isolating group don't like any others, but they need suppliers, so Junkers could help them.
Junkers don't care about politics and others. They care only about own business, family and other Junkers but limited.

[blubba]

I, for one am totally confused. I was under the illusion that the Junkers had been supplying tech to Gallia somehow, 'stealing' it from the rest of Sirius and selling it to Gallia (I assume they sold it and not for love).
If thats the case, why are they enemies of anyone in Gallia?
Both sides, the Royalists and the Council must appreciate what the Junkers have done for them?
Trade lanes and Jump gates to name but a few and thats just the obvious ones.
Both sides use these. They weren't given solely to the Royalists. Junkers have been serving the 'people' of Gallia for years. If the Gauls are isolationists, the only people welcome should be the Junkers. In all those years, they never betrayed the gallic people, Council or Royalist. They did what was asked of them.
If the Gauls are not isolationist, then the Junkers are the perfect people to use as a go between for them and the rest of Sirius (except Kusari).
Overall, the Junkers are the perfect solution for both parties because they have supported all the people of Gallia and yet I read the GRN want to kill Junkers except 'Gallic' ones and so do the Council (or at least, ban them from Council space (especially the Gallic ones)).

As I said, I am totally confused and it's getting even more confusing. I thought the Junkers were supposed to be the one Sirius based faction that could move freely around Gallia. I sometimes wish that we could stick to the infocards instead of twisting them to suit an individuals views on what they think the RP should be and not whats on the ID.

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[Benjamin]

I think the hostility is just a beta issue rather than a design feature?

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Join Cryer Pharmaceuticals

[tazuras]

@Bubba: You make some good points that I agree with. You did leave out a few points though. First most of the junkers outside of Gallia did not come from Gallia nor are they descendants of those who did. The are outsiders and will be treated as such. Secondly and most importantly my understanding is that the junker's sold the technology to Gallia, they didnt just give it to the Gallic government. This is the real problem with the junkers, their loyalty can be bought by the highest bidder and hence they cant be trusted.

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[Drake]

I'd like to see the Gallic Junkers more like the regular Junkers... Rather than being the King's lapdogs, they're independent black-marketeers who spied and stole tech, then sold it to Gallia. Rather than being friendly with the GRN/GRP and unfriendly with the Council/Gallic unlawfuls, they'd be pretty neutral to all of them, with individual Gallic Junkers possibly choosing their own sides. Junker RP breaks down when they become black-and-white, working for one side and against the other rather than just working for themselves.

[Rudo]

A lot of Junker roleplayers are knocked askew with this big shift in directives and storyline, myself included. There's a lot of work ahead for us here. Granted, we sort of dug our own graves on this one by flying everywhere and being everywhere. Seeing a Junker in Rheinland, Liberty, Bretonia and the Border Worlds all in one day is not uncommon.

In that sense, it's a bit hypocritical to say there should be a separate Gallic Junker ID, as what stops there from being a Liberty/Rheinland/Bretonia/Border Worlds Junker ID as well?

Guess it's time to get to work hammering something out.

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[Guest]

@blubba and tyro - About the hostile reputation towards Gallic Royals... That -IS- a design issue. As its better to have the junker population of the server repfix themselves neutral or friendly to the Gallic Royals instead of having everyone else repfix themselves hostile. This is because the GRN / GRP are meant to be hostile to everyone.

@blubba and tazuras - As for Council use of tradelanes and jumpgates? Its not because of Junker help, directly. The Council captured bases and systems, along with the trade lanes and jumpgates within them, from the Gallic Royals.

@Rudo - the difference between a Sirius Junker and a Gallic Junker should be quite obvious. Compare it to when a cop goes undercover. Are there 20 undercover cops on one assignment or are there just 1 or 2?

[blubba]

So, firstly, good, It's a problem with the initial design on the reps. Ok.

"@blubba and tazuras - As for Council use of tradelanes and jumpgates? Its not because of Junker help, directly. The Council captured bases and systems, along with the trade lanes and jumpgates within them, from the Gallic Royals".

I believe it is completely because of Junker help that they are in Gallia at all. Not for Royalists OR Council. They were sold, as has been pointed out, to the Gallic people. At the time, the people were represented by the Royalists. It doesn't matter to the Junkers. Thats what their ID says. They are trying to make a cred.
As for inheriting them by force of arms, where is the tech to maintain them coming from?
This can't be that black and white.

(@ Rudo) As for Junkers from one area being different to others, the Junkers have known about Gallia for a long time, they just didn't tell anyone because they were paid not to. They didn't open the mine fields, the Gauls did. (thats just my take on it).

(@Drake) //Signed.

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[Guest]

Im a bit confused, blubba. Are you saying that you believe it is completely due to the Junker's help that they (The Council) are in Gallia? or?

Junkers were employed by the Gallic Royals to spy on the houses and steal tech to assist in their goal to become technologically superior to the houses of Sirius.

Do you honestly think The Council held control over Champagne and Languedoc all this time? No, before the Council took action against the Gallic Royals, those systems were under Royalist control. One thing I do recall reading was that the revolution started on Planet Marne, which is of course in Champagne.
The minefield itself was put up by the Royals, meaning they controlled the Languedoc system untill Council forces pushed them out to open the mine field, placing Quillan the trade lanes, and other bases in their control.

[blubba]

Do I believe?

"you believe it is completely due to the Junker's help that they (The Council) are in Gallia"?
No. Nothing of the sort.
Absolutely not. Not even close. As far as the Junkers are concerned, the Council ARE Gallia, as are the Royalists and all the others.

"Do you honestly think The Council held control over Champagne and Languedoc all this time? No, before the Council took action against the Gallic Royals, those systems were under Royalist control. One thing I do recall reading was that the revolution started on Planet Marne, which is of course in Champagne.
The minefield itself was put up by the Royals, meaning they controlled the Languedoc system untill Council forces pushed them out to open the mine field, placing Quillan the trade lanes, and other bases in their control".

I'm sure your history is spot on and I have no quibbels with any of it.
I would say that with my limited knowledge of Gallia, The Council didn't exist until some of the population got upset with people in charge. That stands to reason. They then formed themselves into a cohesive unit and showed their hand on planet Marne, which is pretty much what you have said. Or are we now saying the war in Gallia started the moment they arrived?

"No, before the Council took action against the Gallic Royals, those systems were under Royalist control".

So, the war hadn't started until then and you obviously agree with me as per the above statement.

"under Royalist control"

Hmm...they were not 'Royalist'. There was only Gallia UNTIL the revolution at which point two sides came into being. The Royalists and the 'others' (Council, Marquis etc).

"One thing I do recall reading was that the revolution started on Planet Marne, which is of course in Champagne."

Indeed. One Gallia until the revolution which you have now confirmed for me above which also supports the suggestion below.

The mine field was put up long before the Council existed. Shortly after the Gauls arrived.
The GAULS put the minefield in place. Not the 'Royalists' or the 'Council' but the Gauls. The war caused it to be opened. Who controlled what and when is immaterial to the Junkers and that is what this is about.
The Junkers were employed by the Gauls, not specifically the Royalists, but the Gauls, when it was a single nation, before the war.
The Junkers served the Gallia people then, as they do now. Not the Royalists or the Council but the Gallia people.
They do not support ANY faction in a war. Infact, they are famous for it.
That is what I believe.

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