' Wrote:2. The Unioners are certainly not allied to the Corsairs either. They are also neutral to unfriendly.
I wouldn't think them completely unfriendly. They do sell people Artifacts out of Munich. I would think they'd try and keep as much neutrality as they could muster, to be honest. They'd make a killing if they could get away with both Artifact and Diamond smuggling, especially with the war in Rheinland cutting off most of the diamonds from Rheinland into Liberty.
' Wrote:[
3. There is little to no reason why the Mollys and Red Hessians are on the Outcast allies list, but of course the logical arguments behind changing that are ignored.
Wouldn't a World War II analogy work for this? We don't agree, Soviet Union, however, the US will tolerate our differences so we can destroy this major superpower which, for some reason, wants to kill all of us and our families? I think that fits pretty well.
' Wrote:5. Don't even get me started on the sillyness of the Corsair - Order alliance...
I thought it was well justified, though, these days it seems unnecessary.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
Mollys are close allies of the Liberty Rogues. So their allegence with the Outcasts is sort of a "friend of my friend" thing.
The Red Hessians are at war with the Corsairs also, but namely in the Omegas. They share a common enemy, and so their alliance makes sense. If the Corsairs were ever defeated, the Hessians and Outcasts would probably no longer be allies, but still neutral-friendly.
I forgot that the Blood Dragons had severed ties to the Outcasts now... but that list was just off the top of my head. I can go get the actual list, but I think I covered all of the basics.
Are the Mollys and Gaians unfriendly or hostile to each other? I haven't spent much time in Bretonia, so this is just a theory. But maybe because of the Mollys ties to the Outcasts, the Gaians thought it was best for their survival to make a strong ally also.
If/when the Corsairs ever are defeated, Hessians and Outcasts would likely instantly turn unfriendly to outright hostile. Hessians don't use cardamine and never will, hence conflict of interest. They don't want Outcasts in Rheinland either. They certainly wouldn't be best pals even against a common enemy. They shouldn't be allied to Outcasts, but neutral. Rogues shouldn't be allied to Outcasts either, they should be neutral to friendly at best. Same deal with Mollys.
First of all, the Order/Corsair alliance is not silly in the slightest. Imagine: you're exiled to the Omicrons with one battleship and several wings of fighters, but all the tech in the Sector. You are set upon all sides by hostile forces, what do you do? The Bounty Hunters initiate a bloody war and Liberty is still very hostile. Nomads are obviously hostile, and so are their worshipers, the Outcasts.
Then you find a very large faction that seems to be fighting ALL of those enemies. AND, they even have shipyards with new tech to trade. Sure, they may seem to be a bit shifty, but hate your enemies almost as much as you do, plus they can help you build up your forces quickly and efficiently.
Also, I believe the Outcast/Corsair war is something of an underground economic and martial boon. Consider the Xenos of Vanilla. Generally, the Xenos weren't very frightening in their Starfleas, and didn't have that many bases. Then you had the LH and Rogues who did take sides in the war and profited greatly. (Although there are rumors all over the place that the Rogues were in cahoots with the Corsairs as well)
See, I don't think it matters if the Red Hessians use Cardi at all. They profit from the stuff, and it helps them fuel their war machine. Taking sides in the war could spell the difference between a worker's movement getting off the ground and fading into obscurity. Sure the Gaians have funds from the Green Front, but the Corsairs help them become pilots and station engineers and anything else they want. Ditto with LH, Mollies, GC and FA.
"The thirteen saloons that had lined the one street of Seney had not left a trace. The foundations of the Mansion House hotel stuck up above the ground. The stone was chipped and split by the fire. It was all that was left of the town of Seney. Even the surface had been burned off the ground.
Nick looked at the burned-over stretch of hillside, where he had expected to find the scattered houses of the town and then walked down the railroad track to the bridge over the river. The river was there."
Afaik, Outcasts are not supposed to be worshipping the Nomads. If they admit that in Liberty, all the local criminals in Liberty (which the Outcasts need for Cardamine distribution) would turn against them. So perhaps Outcasts don't shoot everything that's blue and moves, yes, that might be actually clever. But they certainly aren't Best Friends Forever.
Order-Corsair alliance did make sense, yes. But now it's obsolete since the Order can stand a chance against strong opposition now, with their new shipline.
Having neutral relations to a faction is much cooler, I think. painting the entire Sirius black and white, or everyone picking "sides" would be boring, right? And childish, I think (as kids often tend to see things good or bad). Such paradigm also defeats the purpose of the faction system altogether.
' Wrote:Then you find a very large faction that seems to be fighting ALL of those enemies. AND, they even have shipyards with new tech to trade. Sure, they may seem to be a bit shifty, but hate your enemies almost as much as you do, plus they can help you build up your forces quickly and efficiently.
See, I don't think it matters if the Red Hessians use Cardi at all. They profit from the stuff, and it helps them fuel their war machine. Taking sides in the war could spell the difference between a worker's movement getting off the ground and fading into obscurity. Sure the Gaians have funds from the Green Front, but the Corsairs help them become pilots and station engineers and anything else they want. Ditto with LH, Mollies, GC and FA.
Hate your enemies almost as much as you do? I was under the impression the Order was about saving humanity, not sitting around in the edge worlds trying to kill it?
And, you're only looking at one side of it.
Yeah, the Gaians could learn how to be pilots and engineers from the corsairs (presuming the corsairs would want to teach them, which is a pretty huge if, in reality), but doing that would completely remove any legitimacy the gaians had at all. The green front would have to (have they done this?) completely sever ties with the gaians or they're all just pirates. They go from gaians to, as I said before, just corsairs.
It's the same with the Order. Going from these super noble humanity savers to a bunch of guys working with murdering cannibals for pretty ropy reasons (I mean, wouldn't an alliance with the zoners have made way more sense).
The Outcast stuff I have less of a problem with on the whole, but there should be way more white aroudn than green. Hessians and Outcasts should be friendly because they are fighting the same enemy. Not allied, but friendly. And without the corsair enemy, they have nothing linking them at all.
' Wrote:First of all, the Order/Corsair alliance is not silly in the slightest. Imagine: you're exiled to the Omicrons with one battleship and several wings of fighters, but all the tech in the Sector. You are set upon all sides by hostile forces, what do you do? The Bounty Hunters initiate a bloody war and Liberty is still very hostile. Nomads are obviously hostile, and so are their worshipers, the Outcasts.
Then you find a very large faction that seems to be fighting ALL of those enemies. AND, they even have shipyards with new tech to trade. Sure, they may seem to be a bit shifty, but hate your enemies almost as much as you do, plus they can help you build up your forces quickly and efficiently.
Yes so the Order which is a faction by far the most dedicated towards saving mankind allies itself with Corsairs: a mass of bloodthirsty, anarchic pirates and cutthroats hell bent on dominating Sirius in their own way. Makes a lot of sense, that.
Or maybe the Order got enough support from defectors from militaries and from its own funding (who says Toledo wasn't colonised long before humanity even ran into Nomads?) that it was able to construct a powerbase on its own, helped by genuinely ideological factions? In vanilla the Order isn't allies to Corsairs, it is allied to Blood Dragons and Bundschuh...
Quote:Also, I believe the Outcast/Corsair war is something of an underground economic and martial boon. Consider the Xenos of Vanilla. Generally, the Xenos weren't very frightening in their Starfleas, and didn't have that many bases. Then you had the LH and Rogues who did take sides in the war and profited greatly. (Although there are rumors all over the place that the Rogues were in cahoots with the Corsairs as well)
See, I don't think it matters if the Red Hessians use Cardi at all. They profit from the stuff, and it helps them fuel their war machine. Taking sides in the war could spell the difference between a worker's movement getting off the ground and fading into obscurity. Sure the Gaians have funds from the Green Front, but the Corsairs help them become pilots and station engineers and anything else they want. Ditto with LH, Mollies, GC and FA.
1. Xenos are the second largest pirate group in Liberty (if not largest) rivalling the Liberty Rogues very capably. That "OC funding" doesn't seem to be working out for them too well if a bunch of Xenos can give the Rogues and Hackers a good run for their money... Rogues should be neutral to OCs and Corsairs to reflect their lack of centralised leadership and their dealings in both cardamine and artifacts.
2. The Hessians are undisputably Sirius' third largest unlawful faction. They run an enormous diamond smuggling and cargo piracy ring that stretches across all of the Omegas, Rheinland, Bretonia even (rumours say that Hessian expansion to Cambridge is a matter of time), and involves the Unioners and Liberty Rogues in smuggling the goods to Liberty. They don't embrace cardamine and never will, neither do they smuggle it or ever see the profits from it (Outcast dons giving out cash for free? lol). They despise the Nomads and anybody involved with them as the Wilde keep appearing in their space. They don't need Outcast support, in fact them and Outcasts never meet. They should be neutral at most, but not allied, since obviously anything beyond ceasefire is a bit far fetched considering the above facts.
3. Gaians are like Bretonian Xenos a bit... they are a political terrorist movement. What makes you think they would go and seek out a bunch of profit driven pirates to teach them to fly instead of simply getting their own training from disillusioned BAF or corporate pilots?
Basically the alliances in their current state only create masses of plotholes and dumb each involved unlawful faction down. A faction is ideological? It allied with Corsairs, theyre just pirates now. I protest against dumbing down of the RP of each faction like this... as said in posts above this one, nothing is black and white and Sirius shouldnt be either.
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