ID - IFF autoupdate

[akar.zaephyr]

I've been thinking about this feature for quite some time so I decided to make this thread to ask your opinion.

As we all know, IFF completely depends on Player's actions so it is possible to be neutral with all of the faction no matter what ID is equipped, it is hard to achieve though.

What if equipping a specific ID would adjust the IFF to faction the ID represents?

Here's an example.
I would like to join Corsairs so I'm repfixing to get their ID, but there is actually no problem to be neutral with Bounty Hunters. As long as you meet human player you'll be engaged anyway, but NPCs won't bother you anymore. Since NPCs weapons and AI have been slightly changed, this is an advantage that shouldn't take place.

So we come to a point where you buy the Corsair ID and here's the magic:
- Corsairs are friendly to The Order, Hogosha, Gaians and Farmers Alliance so Player's IFF to these faction would become friendly (not fully friendly but enough to see them green);
- Corsairs are hostile to Outcasts, Red Hessians, Liberty Rogues etc. so mounting their ID would make you hostile with all of the enemies they should be hostile with.
- reputation to all other factions that are not listed would not be changed at all

IMO, this should make the RP more adjusted as I see no point in being unlawful or lawful and being neutral to all those you shouldn't be, considering the faction Player joined.

What is your opinion? What do you think?

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yeah my spell and such sucks but i what ever
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[akar.zaephyr]

If that is supposed to be a discussion on some good level, I would really appreciate some details - what abuse opportunities?

Besides - please keep your judgment (lazy asses) for yourself as I'm way far from being lazy.

Thank you.

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yeah my spell and such sucks but i what ever
(...)

[Athenian]

When I have an idea for a character, having to go through the whole process of starting another starflier in Liberty and doing a long journey and then missions and bribes...to be honest, it annoys the hell out of me. It was fun for a little while at the start playing Discovery, but it caused as much frustration and annoyance. Plus, it detracted a lot from any character I made who wasn't Liberty basedor originated there.

What you suggest is an idea worth considering. Ayone flying a BHG knows that repping can cause all sorts of ludicrous situations. Spend time killing Red Hessian NPC's and next thing you know, you're friendly with Corsairs. If certain faction reps could be fixed and tied to the ID, that might be an idea. I'd also like to see different starting options, one that would allow you to begin in a particular ship at a particular base with a ID already fitted. eg I decide Im going to play a Xeno character. So I start on Ouray in a starblazer with full Xeno rep and ID. Or if I opt to play a non factionised Rheinlander trader, I start on New Berlin in a Rheinland ship (maybe a freighter for a small time trader) with all Rheinland lawful factions green and unlawfuls red (not necessarily full though). So long as i keep one of those ID's those factions would stay red, regardless of how many npc's I shoot. Things is , that raises the question of changing ID's.

Just a thought. I don't think the process of repping is particularly enjoyable. I get limited time to play. Rep fixing has wasted a lot of my time on the server. If the PvE aspect of the game - missions especially - was a little more varied, repping might be more interesting - perhaps different rep boosts for certain missions; missions that would reward you with a ship or an item.

Player interaction (PvP especially) is governed by the ID carried. Rep isn't technically supposed to matter. Surely anything that acknowledges this is worth considering.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Thexare]

Maybe it should for the normal IDs.

Not the Guard IDs. Guard IFFs make people appear hostile to most people outside their NPC faction, so some people will want to keep their non-guard IFF. Also, that hostility prevents use of Formation.

Not the Generic IDs. Yes, Freelancer IFF exists, and for those who want it it's easy to get. However, some of us use a different IFF to indicate who we work with - my Azure Line Shipping ships all have Freelancer ID and Junker IFF to show our strong business relationship with the Junkers (and conveniently, since we're based in Bretonia, Kusari and the Xenos shouldn't like us anyway), and for a short time I had a Freelancer with an intentional Navy IFF to show that he was basically working for the Navy and LPI.

[Virus]

Actually, I believe we already have something implemented like this for Corsair and Outcast IDs. Only thing it does is make enemies hostile, though.

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Into the Maelstrom - A Measure of Salvation - Reaver Company Database

[Teknikal]

Reminds me of when I had a spyglass quite a while back for the record and I somehow lost the tag and had to fly it round all of Discovery about 4 times just to fix it that was a complete nightmare with the docking gates and red NPC's I couldn't fire back on.

I' find getting the right rep a lot easier these days though I'm not sure if things have been tweaked or I've just got the process down.

From a convenience point of view it would be nice if ID's did that but I find getting green enough to buy the ID is most of the battle as it is just don't shoot at anything unnecessarily till you have the right IFF well locked in.

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[Markus_Janus]

Wouldn't a .restart feature work better for this?
Sure it would clear out any money you had on the ship as well as equipment but that could be taken into account with a little preparation.

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Samura Omotai Zaibatsu.

[Tidomann]

Wouldn't a .restart feature work better for this?
Sure it would clear out any money you had on the ship as well as equipment but that could be taken into account with a little preparation.

Why can't you just delete your character and make a new one?

Edit: Unless of course you wish to keep the same ship.. I guess in that situation then it would work.

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Hakatoa Yamota, Fuku-Honbucho in the Black Dragon Society

[akar.zaephyr]

(...)
What you suggest is an idea worth considering. Ayone flying a BHG knows that repping can cause all sorts of ludicrous situations. Spend time killing Red Hessian NPC's and next thing you know, you're friendly with Corsairs.
(...)

That is exactly what I mean. But let's go further:

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Player interaction (PvP especially) is governed by the ID carried. Rep isn't technically supposed to matter. Surely anything that acknowledges this is worth considering.

I agree. When you meet human player the ID is what matters most.
What I'm up to is the reaction of NPCs. As I posted earlier, NPC's AI and weapons have been adjusted to be more dangerous near their home space then anywhere else. I found it to be pretty hard to get through Lorraine - encountering Outcast NPCs always anded in tough battle and loss of most shield / hull, if not death. This was made for some reason.

In my example I used Corsairs to show what the idea is. Getting neutral with BHs is not a problem but where's the point? I mean, meeting BH player will result in a battle anyway but you are clear to go if you meet NPCs who normally would make some trouble getting through. That is some sort of abuse I would like to get reed of. The choice is clear - if you want to be Corsair, you should be hostile to BHs and others.

Maybe it should for the normal IDs.

Not the Guard IDs. Guard IFFs make people appear hostile to most people outside their NPC faction, so some people will want to keep their non-guard IFF. Also, that hostility prevents use of Formation.
(...)

As I wrote just above, if you want to be a Guard you need to consider most of non-house factions will be hostile. What kind of RP is getting a cap ship, guard ID and then making most of factions at least neutral? Isn't having cap ship enough? But:

(...)
Not the Generic IDs. Yes, Freelancer IFF exists, and for those who want it it's easy to get. However, some of us use a different IFF to indicate who we work with - my Azure Line Shipping ships all have Freelancer ID and Junker IFF to show our strong business relationship with the Junkers (and conveniently, since we're based in Bretonia, Kusari and the Xenos shouldn't like us anyway), and for a short time I had a Freelancer with an intentional Navy IFF to show that he was basically working for the Navy and LPI.

I agree in some situations IFF may differ from standard factions relations.
In your example, freelancer ID is combined with Junkder IFF. Well, Junkers are unlawful, Freelancers are lawful. I see some dilemma here.

Actually, I believe we already have something implemented like this for Corsair and Outcast IDs. Only thing it does is make enemies hostile, though.

That seems quite interesting - can anyone officially confirm that?
If so, it seems we're one step closer to get this idea working.

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From a convenience point of view it would be nice if ID's did that but I find getting green enough to buy the ID is most of the battle as it is just don't shoot at anything unnecessarily till you have the right IFF well locked in.

I agree.

From all of your posts I see few things that need to be considered.

First, if the ID mounting would make you friendly with faction's friends it can't make your rep bar fully green. That would make becoming friendly with some factions too easy so I think filling the friendly bar half way up should do it. Just to the point where NPCs are displayed friendly, same for hostile. This should allow NPCs to react to faction relations as they should so they're no longer a dust filling empty space.

Second, there is a thing that bothers me. Should the faction rep be locked (so it can't be changed before changing ID) or not? If yes, that would give an opportunity to shoot your NPC allies or bases with no consequences, but would give an opportunity for a pure, hardcore RP (as whole disco is). If not, mounting an ID would change the rep to friendly / foe factions but player would change it then. In this case, I'm not sure if there is a point for that feature...

I think it all depends on player orientation. Personally I think that once someone want to join a faction, must consider it's allies and enemies. Otherwise I find faction joining a bit strange if you want to be (once again as an example) Corsair with BH neutrality.

Many questions I find but that is the reason of creating this thread so thank you for all your posts.
I hope this goes further so we can see if this idea is worth of considering.

Thank you!

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yeah my spell and such sucks but i what ever
(...)

[Thexare]

As I wrote just above, if you want to be a Guard you need to consider most of non-house factions will be hostile. What kind of RP is getting a cap ship, guard ID and then making most of factions at least neutral? Isn't having cap ship enough?

What kind of sense does it make for an Outcast Destroyer to appear hostile to a Lane Hacker flying a Bayonet? That is the kind of situation Guard IFFs create - allies appearing hostile to each other.

I agree in some situations IFF may differ from standard factions relations.
In your example, freelancer ID is combined with Junkder IFF. Well, Junkers are unlawful, Freelancers are lawful. I see some dilemma here.

Wrong on both counts. Junkers are quasi-legal, and freelancers can be either.