BHG and Core ID re-drafts

[Athenian]

Some suggested re-writes to the BHG and Core ID's:

This is related to the server rules, specifically:

6.15 Owners of Bounty Hunter/Mercenary/Freelancer IDs have a right to attack:
- Pirates
- Traders ships carrying smuggled goods and refusing to drop them
- (not for FL ID) Lawful and unlawful players with a bounty on their heads

6.17 Owners of Pirate IDs have a right to attack:
- Military/Police
- Bounty Hunters

The ID's don't reflect the requirement that there be a forum bounty on the individual concerned. This was put forward by Admin notice previously.

The Armoured Transport's cargo size is much larger, which I think means it is now a Freighter. It is the only generic ship of its type available to BHG players.

Also, the Guild Core ID is written in such a way that it allows certain unlawful forces to, for example, rally large numbers of ships while the Core ID'd ship can do nothing. This is particularly a problem in Omicron Delta. While the Core is at war with the Order, Corsairs can and do attack BHG ships with impunity. However, a balance between allowing the BHG Core to act as a faction at war and preventing the worst abuses of the BHG ships needs to be struck.
Furthermore, the Guild Core ID has some overlap with the Guild ID which I don't think is necessary - these are essentially two very different organisations. The Guild is the bounty hunters; the Core is a militaristic faction.

One other point: the demanding of contraband should end with the destruction of the contraband or the ship that refuses to hand it over. Fines and seizure are effectively legal piracy.

Current BHG ID:

Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Bounty Hunters Guild, who:
* Can fulfill lawful bounty contracts
* Can trade and escort traders
* Can hunt pirates and terrorists across Sirius
* Can demand cargo or credits from ships carrying contraband and destroy them if they refuse to comply
* Cannot ally with any unlawfuls
* Cannot participate in any unlawful actions
* Cannot use any Liner except the Prison Liner
Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Gunboats, Prison Liners
Carrying unmounted IDs in your ship, as well as not equipping an ID, is a serious crime.

Proposed draft:

Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Bounty Hunters Guild, who:
* Can hunt pirates and terrorists with a bounty on their head across Sirius
* Can demand Bounty Hunter pilots from ships destroy them if they refuse to comply
* Can trade and escort traders
* Cannot ally with any unlawfuls
* Cannot participate in any unlawful actions
Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Armoured Transport, Gunboats, Prison Liners
Carrying unmounted IDs in your ship, as well as not equipping an ID, is a serious crime.

Current Guild Core ID:

Bounty Hunters Guild Core ID (This is effectively the BHG Guard ID)
Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Bounty Hunter Guild Core, who:
* Is in a state of war with The Order and Nomads, and may engage Order or Nomad affiliated individuals without a bounty.
* Can engage and destroy any ship produced by The Order without a bounty, even if the faction affiliation of the pilot is not Order.
* Can engage and destroy any pilot actively assisting another Order pilot or Nomad.
* Cruisers and Battleships can only operate within the Omicron, Omega and Sigma systems but fighters, bombers, freighters, prison liners or gunboats may operate anywhere in Sirius that the Bounty Hunter ID permits.
* Can only fulfill bounty contracts against fighters or gunboats by using a fighter, bomber, freighter, or gunboat, unless the target is in a capital ship, then the same class of capital ship may be used to collect the bounty, but Core cruisers and battleships can only collect bounties within the Omicron, Omega, or Sigma systems.
* Can demand allied pilots, Nomad technology and Nomad specimens from other ships and destroy ships if they refuse to hand them over. Cannot demand credits or other cargo from anyone.
* Cannot ally with any unlawfuls
* Cannot participate in any unlawful action
* Cannot use any Liner except the Prison Liner
Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Gunboats, Prison Liner, Cruisers, Battleships
Carrying unmounted IDs in your ship, as well as not equipping an ID, is a serious crime.

Propsed draft:

Bounty Hunters Guild Core ID (This is effectively the BHG Guard ID)
Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Bounty Hunter Guild Core, who:
* Cannot ally with any unlawfuls
* Cannot participate in any unlawful actions
* Can attack Order or Nomad affiliated individuals.
* Can attack any ship produced by The Order without a bounty, even if the faction affiliation of the pilot is not Order.
* Can attack any pilot actively assisting another Order pilot or Nomad.
* Can attack any pirate or terrorist in any system with a Bounty Hunters Guild base.
* Can only operate within the Omicron, Omega and Sigma systems.
* Can hunt pirates and terrorists with a bounty on their head
* Can fulfill lawful bounty contracts with cruisers and battleships only against other capital ships
* Can demand Bounty Hunter pilots, Nomad technology and Nomad specimens from other ships and destroy ships if they refuse to hand them over. Cannot demand credits or any other cargo from anyone.
Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Armoured Transport, Gunboats, Prison Liner, Cruisers, Battleships
Carrying unmounted IDs in your ship, as well as not equipping an ID, is a serious crime.

Feedback would be appreciated before I submit this in the ID discussion thread.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Reverend Del]

The Armoured Transport is still a Transport. As it has always been.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[Athenian]

The Armoured Transport is still a Transport. As it has always been.

Aye. I was checking up on this. True, it was a transport last time around as well. The ID proposal changes before 4.85 came out discussed the ship and it was to be included as an approved ship for BHG ID, to the best of knowledge.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Cosmos]

why would the BHG want to destroy smugglers? its not in their interest to stop the contraband trade, They wont make money from it Therefore it shouldnt be of any interest to them.

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[22:50:33] ☆ҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳEternal†Nightmareҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳ☆(illi): i cyber with leather torps (smoking)

[Athenian]

why would the BHG want to destroy smugglers? its not in their interest to stop the contraband trade, They wont make money from it Therefore it shouldnt be of any interest to them.

Because they are Sirius wide auxilliary police force, and it's what the NPC's do, just at jumpholes rather than in planetary orbit.

This is not about justifying why original rules were set up the way they were. That role for BHG is tied in to rule 6.15. (above) By your logic, killing every unlawful in space would kill Guild business opportunities. Therefore it should not be done. By extension of that, Harvesting every human being would deplete the population, and exhaust the resource, sp it shouldn't be done.

However, I wonder what people think about contraband interdiciton being a police only function.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[carlabrams]

why would the BHG want to destroy smugglers? its not in their interest to stop the contraband trade, They wont make money from it Therefore it shouldnt be of any interest to them.

It also happens that if you'd take the time to read the bounty boards, you'd see that Hunters get paid bounties for interdicting contraband. So it IS in their interest to stop the contraband trade, and they DO make money from it, therefore your argument is invalid.

On the Core ID, you need to change your proposal to reflect that cap ships ONLY are restricted to the Outer Reaches.

Original:
* Cruisers and Battleships can only operate within the Omicron, Omega and Sigma systems but fighters, bombers, freighters, prison liners or gunboats may operate anywhere in Sirius that the Bounty Hunter ID permits.
Your revision:
* Can only operate within the Omicron, Omega and Sigma systems.

My Suggestion:
* Destroyers, Cruisers, and Battleships can only operate within the Omicron, Omega, and Sigma systems. All other ships may operate normally anywhere in Sirius.

Also, there recently was a post where the definition of Freighter was bumped up to 650 cargo. Since the AT only has 525 cargo, I would think that would, by definition now, make it a Freighter and not a Transport.

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Sentient Machine Alliance

[Thexare]

Also, there recently was a post where the definition of Freighter was bumped up to 650 cargo. Since the AT only has 525 cargo, I would think that would, by definition now, make it a Freighter and not a Transport.

It got boosted in this version, Agmen.

[Tenacity]

I would prefer the normal BHG ID remains unchanged. One of the reasons this was a problem in 4.84 is because the normal ID could use capships, which allowed the player to hunt pirates in fighters/bombers/gunboats with a battleship - that doesnt happen anymore, as the biggest ship the normal BHG ID allows is the orca gunboat.

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[Derkylos]

On the Core ID, you need to change your proposal to reflect that cap ships ONLY are restricted to the Outer Reaches.

Original:
* Cruisers and Battleships can only operate within the Omicron, Omega and Sigma systems but fighters, bombers, freighters, prison liners or gunboats may operate anywhere in Sirius that the Bounty Hunter ID permits.
Your revision:
* Can only operate within the Omicron, Omega and Sigma systems.

My Suggestion:
* Destroyers, Cruisers, and Battleships can only operate within the Omicron, Omega, and Sigma systems. All other ships may operate normally anywhere in Sirius.

Also, there recently was a post where the definition of Freighter was bumped up to 650 cargo. Since the AT only has 525 cargo, I would think that would, by definition now, make it a Freighter and not a Transport.

I think the idea is that no Core ships should be running around collecting bounties in the houses, they are needed to conduct the war in the lonelycrons, be they caps or fighters.

Maybe allow transports into the houses to re-supply the fleet?

I would prefer the normal BHG ID remains unchanged. One of the reasons this was a problem in 4.84 is because the normal ID could use capships, which allowed the player to hunt pirates in fighters/bombers/gunboats with a battleship - that doesnt happen anymore, as the biggest ship the normal BHG ID allows is the orca gunboat.

The only proposed text change in the regular Bounty Hunter ID was the one pertaining to the approach to contraband. No capital ships were mentioned.

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[tansytansey]

Because they are Sirius wide auxilliary police force, and it's what the NPC's do, just at jumpholes rather than in planetary orbit.

I prefer to think of the Bounty Hunters as a company, than a police force. Bounty Hunters know full well the location of many older unlawful stations, such as Buffalo and Alcatraz. NPC patrols can be seen there all the time. If they were a police force, they could easily muster the strength to wipe those bases out, especially with their allies. So why don't they? I'll give you a small hint.
$

Okay, I lied, that was a big hint. Yes, the Bounty Hunters want credits, and nothing more. Why? To fuel their campaign in the Omicrons of course. If the Bounty Hunters wiped out pirates, they'd lose their main source of income. Bad move.
Since this has nothing to do with ID changes... I'll stop there.

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