' Wrote:The Corsairs do indeed have many opponents. You're perfectly right when you point out that this'll divide Corsair responses. However, even if the Corsairs were capable of mounting an organized response against the Order in the form of a "battleship squadron" against us (whether in terms of abstract roleplay or in terms of actual player base), two factors would enable us to defend: firstly, that every base we've chosen to maintain a presence on is surrounded by a handy asteroid field that'll leave heavy warships dead in the water, and secondly, the average Corsair is, frankly, a poor fighter. Almost without exclusion, when I fight serverside against a Corsair force, it greatly outnumbers me or me and the others with me - we tend to win regardless. We intend to have every Crusader of the Lion maintain a bomber and to be a capable bomber pilot. Superior equipment and numbers can only take one so far - a skilled opposing force will rout even a "battleship squadron" like the one you suggested, whether ingame or in matters of general roleplay.
This is all fine and dandy for player PVPing, but what about the "real" NPC response?
1. Corsairs are known as some of the best pilots in Sirius.
2. Corsairs fly and fight in asteroid fields too.
3. Corsairs have much more resources than you do.
Now, this doesn't mean you can't fight them. It just means that stand up fights are out of the question, as you seem to have said as well. This means ambushes, raids, etc. Sneaky stuff, in other words. Real "stand up fights" would be rare between you guys and the Corsairs, and would probably best be represented by actual PVP events.
Besides, if a Corsair fleet really wanted to (in-RP) destroy a base in an asteroid field, they could always just vaporize a path to the base through the rocks.
Quote:Basically, I honestly think that the Order as it'll (hopefully!) be implemented ingame will have an excellent chance at defeating the Corsair zergs that'll doubtlessly be thrown at us. 'Course, clever use of our surroundings (i.e. asteroid fields) will help, as well.
Do you intend for your entire "Order" to be just the players, with no "NPC" pilots? If so, then you are even less of a threat to the Corsairs. If not, then you have "NPC" pilots as well that go do missions and will lose pilots to the Corsair NPCs that oppose them.
Another point to address: Bretonian fighters and bombers are the property of the Bretonia Armed Forces. Just because you flew for them for X number of years doesn't mean that you get to take your fighter home with you. Now, with rich backers, you guys would probably be able to buy a limited number of military fighters, but I forsee, at the most, you only being able to get your hands on a couple bombers. After all, they need those to counter the Kusari battleship threat coming in from the north.
I like the way you think! Let's continue this logical train of thought:
The Liberty Navy:
1) is a governmental group
2) is based off of governmental stations
3) attacks pirates
Gee, that sure sounds like the Kusari Naval Forces/the Bretonian Armed Forces/the Rheinwehr to me! Why not merge 'em all into one big, happy faction? Great idea! After all, we wouldn't want redundant roleplay, would we, and there's absolutely no distinction between the factions listed above! Everything's been accounted for!
chico - long story short, the ZOI includes our bases and the enemies bases which are our objectives.also read the above posts. they answer some of your questions
' Wrote:That would be an excellent argument and doubtlessly very true if the Corsairs were capable of summoning up the coordination and organizatorial skill of a banana. Fortunately for the Order, they can't, so we feel validated in assuming that we can, in fact, take the Corsair Empire on, the Knights of the Lion being superior in terms of planning and competence in fights.
The Corsairs would not be the largest organized crime organization in Sirius if they could not manage internal structure. Disco (and Freelancer) lore trumps in-game player actions.
Quote:The Corsair Empire is a little like the European Union, really - very powerful in theory, but rather ineffective in reality due to the tendency of its members to scheme and politicize against each other and to get hung up on minor details.
Once again, Freelancer Lore vs player actions.
Quote:The Corsairs might, theoretically, be a very powerful force. However, in actuality, the Corsair "Empire" consists of a great deal of absolutely bloody incompetent unaffiliated pilots whose sole purpose in life seems to be valiantly defending Planet Crete's docking ring and of several more organized factions whose half-hearted attempts to guide the unwashed Corsair masses along the road to intelligence and sanity seem sadly ineffectual, and who are themselves beginning to drop in quality (this is only my perception of matters and isn't intended as a flame attempt).
Sounds like a pretty effective flamebait to me. So you mean to say that all those Corsair NPCs out there pirating NPC convoys, smuggling artifacts, and doing all that day-to-day business kind of stuff suddenly don't matter? Don't exist?
Quote:The Corsairs the Order of the Lion will be dealing with in practice can't muster a force to "squash us like a mosquito". Hell, I doubt they could even squash a real mosquito - they'd probably need to settle on a chain of command as well as move away from Crete to manage that.
So you're saying that the only thing that counts is PVP results?
the two things that i typed, i know they are different, but still no answer on the first one. When group of angry citizen will have base in theta, exactly between corsairs and outcast, and hope that said base can exist more as 5 second after corsairs move for example 5 dreadnoughts to it, then i think corsairs with who know how many more resources and people as your group of angry citizens can have base in every system of sirius. see the point???
And when you are serious, then corsairs was serious in diplomatic notes to the zoners about freeports used as bases for attacks against them, which ended in closing freeports as bases of operations. You think zoners will act different for you? No. you will make it against them? then you have zoners hostile and you are without base again.other thing is that in theta are still only zoners base you know why? because in rp, there are somewhere hidden zoner capital ships that are holding corsairs and outcast back. and you think they allow you to make base there? off course no...
and i am serous too ...
One thing that you are always missing, are posts from others about mollies and kusari naval forces. BAF is loosing bretonia and you think they give green for few angry civilians to make corsairs angry???
other thing chico typed. hessians, rheinland, bretonia, all failed in destroying corsairs. Few angry civilians will be succes in it?
for me this order of lions is something as rheinland mercenaries attacking liberty from colorado... something that in rp must end after one fight ....
(and sorry, but my feeling from this is only as pure pvp faction that will undock in theta, jump to gamma, die, and repeat it in 4 hours. because how you will rp it? BAF has not enough free ships to help you with assaults on gamma, they need them against KNF, so you are without support...)
Mmkay, you raise some concerns I need to address. Better discuss them one by one.
No, our ZoI doesn't include all Corsair areas except Gamma. It includes, in fact, all Corsair areas; Gamma's no exception. Now, hold your horses, don't explode! That only means that the Order of the Lion is permitted to enter Omicron Gamma without being considered out-of-bounds and out-of-roleplay and subject to a sanction. ZoI is largely a rules matter. In practice, we won't be entering Gamma outside of concerted, planned pushes and events (which I'd hope would be possible if the various Corsair factions might be willing to extend a little trust to me and the Order's concept). There won't be any lolzergs on your home system, nor will we be raiding Gamma on an hourly basis, nor will you be seeing lone knights flying loops around Planet Crete. Please have some faith in us on this. Our ultimate goal is to lay siege to Gamma, and that won't be accomplished a day after our faction is born. We're not "a bunch of Freelancers", by the way, we're a warhost of crusaders. The Freelancer ID is a makeshift solution; look at the Colonial Remnant or the Harvesters for precedent.
The Dublin matter is exactly the same as the Omicron Gamma matter. We can enter Dublin without being sanctioned, that's all its inclusion in our ZoI map means. We may, in fact, end up moving troops or supplies through there (I honestly don't know, don't quote me on this, I have no idea what role Dublin will play as of yet), but we won't be fighting Mollys or upholding Bretonian law there. That's a job we leave firmly in the hands of the BAF and BPA. Banza, at least, as the MR's Michael Carruth, is okay with the Order of the Lion. By and large, we're going to be staying out of Bretonia. If we enter, it's only for the reasons I gave LeMaitre, or because we're transporting something.
We don't expect the Hessians to like us, and we don't like them. If they choose to pirate our supply convoys or outright attack crusaders, we'll accept that and fight back with glee. On the other side of the coin, it's possible that the Hessians and the Order might assist each other against overly large Corsair forces, but that'd happen off the books, as it were, and was already addressed extensively a few pages back.
As to Omega-49, even if one chooses to believe that the Bretonian government isn't aware of the system's existence, the matter of the Order of the Lion is an entirely different one. Historically, the Crusaders served as functional mapmakers and trailblazers for the Arabic content just as much as they did as fighters. We're bound to turn up information and make charts, it's only a matter of time. How efficiently such knowledge as we will gather can be relayed to the Queen, however, is an entirely different affair.
About your last comment: I'd like to ask you and the other Corsairs here choosing to view the crusade somewhat skeptically to have a little more faith in me and my fellow factionees. Yes, I and some of my friends here in the Order have an extensive history of frying Corsairs, and yes, we did so most frequently in the Omicrons, including Omicron Gamma. This faction isn't an excuse for shooting Corsairs en masse. If I wanted that, I could just as easily take my BHG| or Freelancer over to give some of you a beating. The purpose behind this faction is to enable roleplaying a crusade, which I find to be a really good idea and downright exciting. Seems the idea's catching on with others, too. Just... view the Order of the Lion with a little less prejudice, please. You probably think of me as Zak Mason, but hell, I didn't write this faction up for me to go about Zak Masonesque pursuits. With a little logic, it's easy to see that I could just get on Zak Mason for that.
' Wrote:That would be an excellent argument and doubtlessly very true if the Corsairs were capable of summoning up the coordination and organizatorial skill of a banana. Fortunately for the Order, they can't, so we feel validated in assuming that we can, in fact, take the Corsair Empire on, the Knights of the Lion being superior in terms of planning and competence in fights.
The Corsair Empire is a little like the European Union, really - very powerful in theory, but rather ineffective in reality due to the tendency of its members to scheme and politicize against each other and to get hung up on minor details. The Corsairs might, theoretically, be a very powerful force. However, in actuality, the Corsair "Empire" consists of a great deal of absolutely bloody incompetent unaffiliated pilots whose sole purpose in life seems to be valiantly defending Planet Crete's docking ring and of several more organized factions whose half-hearted attempts to guide the unwashed Corsair masses along the road to intelligence and sanity seem sadly ineffectual, and who are themselves beginning to drop in quality (this is only my perception of matters and isn't intended as a flame attempt). The Corsairs the Order of the Lion will be dealing with in practice can't muster a force to "squash us like a mosquito". Hell, I doubt they could even squash a real mosquito - they'd probably need to settle on a chain of command as well as move away from Crete to manage that.
Perhaps precisely why this faction should never be made. You've got a vendetta for god knows whatever reason, and you're making a clan purely for self-gratification in that regard.
It's all very well to throw out a paragraph of self opinionated bile and then follow it up with "this isn't a flame attempt". I have no idea what your problem is with us as players, but Im fairly certain this whole idea has OORP motives.
You want to get gratification by scoring PVP kills against a specific faction whos players you seem to have a vendetta against. This is no basis for a clan.
It's rich to post the above quote and then in your next post talk about "prejudice".
In theory, they are a powerful faction. but in practice, they have no true central government, and have various kinks and branches in the chain of command. Also, to your first comment. you say that Freelancer lore trumps in-game actions. However, it is the in-game actions that shape the freelancer world. they need each other. without in game actions, lore has no meaning. without lore, the in game actions would be useless and forgotten.the third and 2nd comments i will not answer. 2nd comment seems like a repeat of the first, and third seems to be between you and zig
Zig to be perfectly honest, if it was someone else posting the proposal, it would probably get less skepticism, but, you have the reputation you have on discover, and it is of your own making. You ask us to have faith in you, when you have given us very little reason to have faith in you in the past. Hence, at this point, we dont trust you to do this well, and not have it be a complete excuse to PVP people, who you admit, you think are by and large bad pilots.
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