Should official factions have more power?

[worldstrider]

I very reluctantly voted "yes" (you may faint now) but oh does POWER really needs to be defined.

No--factions should not have more power...they should have more influence.

What sort of influence? They should (if official) represent the faction with at least as much merit as NPCs--meaning, if you attack one, you can't dock their base while they are there. That they can attack players near their bases who violate CLEARLY stated rules (that are allowed by the server rules and don't violate NPC behavior--i.e., no killing your own faction on a whim as in HAF and OPG most times).

Should they be able to determine what other factions within the game have to or can do in play?--heck no.

Should they be given precedence in creating server rules? Heck no.

Can they modify the general nature of the entire faction base they represent (i.e. redefine what all players must do)? Heck no.

Can they get carte blanche' approval for every far out role play device they create (as in: Our ships are officially cloaked, our ships can officially mind control your pilots, our ships can officially blow up your bases, etc., etc.)? Heck no.

I'm sure there are a lot of details but I do think attacking an official faction should have the same local and immediate impact as attacking an NPC of that faction in the same way, place and time.

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[pbrione]

Powers that could be granted to official factions (where official faction represents entire npc faction):

- Ability to direct npc faction RP in the long run and have it treated as canon (such as RM's development of Rheinland's RP)
- Ability to conduct some (limited) inRP diplomacy on behalf of the npc faction and have this reflected in long run mod development & changes in npc diplomacy (e.g. BAF no longer overly hostile to IMG or Outcasts, instead at war with CR)
- More freedom to inact inRP punishments to control poor RP on the part of indies or unnofficial factions, e.g. indie LN battleship PvPing rogue fighters in the badlands, [LN] can order him to cease wasting valuable resources, redeploy to Hudson or elsewhere. Should he refuse, they can fine him / outlaw him without being sanctioned. I think what might work would be if each faction decided that the upper 50% of its ranks or some such figure could have some authority over indies, but not all faction players, so that there are no complaints of Ensigns ordering battleships around.
- Limited ability to deny docking rights / access to capships with OORP punishments under certain specific circumstances. Specific individuals or groups outlawed by House Police should not be able to dock on police bases and planets (except smugglers). Military factions could be able to control docking on military battleships to non-military IDed players. Regarding capships, each faction could be given control over their respective Battleship - e.g. whilst most battleships require a generic battleship license, Rheinland Battleships require a "RM Battleship License" which cannot be bought. It can either be distributed by members of the [RM] faction to indies or given out by admins upon approval of a special RP request application. Factions could then require that indies demonstrate their RP ability before giving out access to their faction battleships.

The price they pay is, naturally, that unlike indies they are subject to scrutiny by the community, and must constantly prove themselves responsible members of the community of face having their status revoked. I think more powers should come with more responsibilities - as a safeguard all official factions should be subject to periodic review and have to demonstrate that they still are deserving of their positions.

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Sir Stanley Nelson




<span style="color:#000066">Charles Canning </span><span style="color:#000066"> Foreign Secretary</span>

[hack]

Powers that could be granted to official factions (where official faction represents entire npc faction):

- Ability to direct npc faction RP in the long run and have it treated as canon (such as RM's development of Rheinland's RP)
- Ability to conduct some (limited) inRP diplomacy on behalf of the npc faction and have this reflected in long run mod development & changes in npc diplomacy (e.g. BAF no longer overly hostile to IMG or Outcasts, instead at war with CR)
- More freedom to inact inRP punishments to control poor RP on the part of indies or unnofficial factions, e.g. indie LN battleship PvPing rogue fighters in the badlands, [LN] can order him to cease wasting valuable resources, redeploy to Hudson or elsewhere. Should he refuse, they can fine him / outlaw him without being sanctioned. I think what might work would be if each faction decided that the upper 50% of its ranks or some such figure could have some authority over indies, but not all faction players, so that there are no complaints of Ensigns ordering battleships around.
- Limited ability to deny docking rights / access to capships with OORP punishments under certain specific circumstances. Specific individuals or groups outlawed by House Police should not be able to dock on police bases and planets (except smugglers). Military factions could be able to control docking on military battleships to non-military IDed players. Regarding capships, each faction could be given control over their respective Battleship - e.g. whilst most battleships require a generic battleship license, Rheinland Battleships require a "RM Battleship License" which cannot be bought. It can either be distributed by members of the [RM] faction to indies or given out by admins upon approval of a special RP request application. Factions could then require that indies demonstrate their RP ability before giving out access to their faction battleships.

These sound pretty good to me.

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Formerly known as LPI Police Chief Hull O'Brien.
Creator of Sgt. V. Price, 207th Precinct out of Chula Vista Station

[Athenian]

- Ability to direct npc faction RP in the long run and have it treated as canon (such as RM's development of Rheinland's RP)

Aye.

Ability to conduct some (limited) inRP diplomacy on behalf of the npc faction and have this reflected in long run mod development & changes in npc diplomacy (e.g. BAF no longer overly hostile to IMG or Outcasts, instead at war with CR)

Not if it is against the canon of the game. That kind of thing hurt Bretonia rather than helped it, and it eliminated the UoG faction.

More freedom to inact inRP punishments to control poor RP on the part of indies or unnofficial factions, e.g. indie LN battleship PvPing rogue fighters in the badlands, [LN] can order him to cease wasting valuable resources, redeploy to Hudson or elsewhere. Should he refuse, they can fine him / outlaw him without being sanctioned. I think what might work would be if each faction decided that the upper 50% of its ranks or some such figure could have some authority over indies, but not all faction players, so that there are no complaints of Ensigns ordering battleships around

.

That power exists already if RP'd. It's just a question of believability.

Limited ability to deny docking rights / access to capships with OORP punishments under certain specific circumstances. Specific individuals or groups outlawed by House Police should not be able to dock on police bases and planets (except smugglers). Military factions could be able to control docking on military battleships to non-military IDed players. Regarding capships, each faction could be given control over their respective Battleship - e.g. whilst most battleships require a generic battleship license, Rheinland Battleships require a "RM Battleship License" which cannot be bought. It can either be distributed by members of the [RM] faction to indies or given out by admins upon approval of a special RP request application. Factions could then require that indies demonstrate their RP ability before giving out access to their faction battleships.

The docking thing is impossible to enforce. The faction-approved ship thing I have my doubts about.

The price they pay is, naturally, that unlike indies they are subject to scrutiny by the community, and must constantly prove themselves responsible members of the community of face having their status revoked. I think more powers should come with more responsibilities - as a safeguard all official factions should be subject to periodic review and have to demonstrate that they still are deserving of their positions.

There's a world of difference between a review and getting flamed by the mentally deficient or those who spend more time on forums than in-game.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[pbrione]

This is true. With regard to the diplomacy I had conceived that naturally it would be constrained by RP plausability and potential harm to gameplay, but there are certainly circumstances, particularly such as the BAF - IMG example, where it clearly works to benefit canon RP rather than harm it.

These should not be carte blanche powers to do whatever they wish, but in many circumstances it is simply a case of allowing factions more freedom to do what they already do to direct and enforce npc faction RP without fear or threat of sanction. It is all very well saying that the power already exists for faction players to order indies if RPed, but in practice there is often a presumption on the part of many players that it doesn't, and that the factions could still be sanctioned for it. Really it all comes down to giving official factions more flexibility to RP in ways that indies cannot. And by factions would generally be meant faction leaderships, as they would be the ones directing faction policy towards such things.

And I think the docking thing is enforceable. It would only work when faction players were present, but if an LPI is sitting in front of Manhattan and a wanted criminal comes up to the planet, if the LPI says "You are denied docking access, you may not dock at Manhattan" then it should be OORP and sanctionable for the criminal to then dock with the planet, even if his repsheet would otherwise allow it. In this sense certain factions have ownership over their bases. Military Battleships in particular. I consider it greatly OORP for people the military doesn't like to dock on stationary battleships right in front of them.

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Sir Stanley Nelson




<span style="color:#000066">Charles Canning </span><span style="color:#000066"> Foreign Secretary</span>

[casero]

Limiting capital ships is not good to the community, it's one of the main attraction of this server/game. It's sad to think it, but it's the way it's. And yes, we need the players.

[hack]

This is true. With regard to the diplomacy I had conceived that naturally it would be constrained by RP plausability and potential harm to gameplay, but there are certainly circumstances, particularly such as the BAF - IMG example, where it clearly works to benefit canon RP rather than harm it.

These should not be carte blanche powers to do whatever they wish, but in many circumstances it is simply a case of allowing factions more freedom to do what they already do to direct and enforce npc faction RP without fear or threat of sanction. It is all very well saying that the power already exists for faction players to order indies if RPed, but in practice there is often a presumption on the part of many players that it doesn't, and that the factions could still be sanctioned for it. Really it all comes down to giving official factions more flexibility to RP in ways that indies cannot. And by factions would generally be meant faction leaderships, as they would be the ones directing faction policy towards such things.

And I think the docking thing is enforceable. It would only work when faction players were present, but if an LPI is sitting in front of Manhattan and a wanted criminal comes up to the planet, if the LPI says "You are denied docking access, you may not dock at Manhattan" then it should be OORP and sanctionable for the criminal to then dock with the planet, even if his repsheet would otherwise allow it. In this sense certain factions have ownership over their bases. Military Battleships in particular. I consider it greatly OORP for people the military doesn't like to dock on stationary battleships right in front of them.

Agreed

Limiting capital ships is not good to the community, it's one of the main attraction of this server/game. It's sad to think it, but it's the way it's. And yes, we need the players.

The problem is that there are no repercussions due to bad role play. "LOL i iz not part of ur NAvy, I dont haz to listen"

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Formerly known as LPI Police Chief Hull O'Brien.
Creator of Sgt. V. Price, 207th Precinct out of Chula Vista Station

[worldstrider]

Ability to direct npc faction RP in the long run and have it treated as canon (such as RM's development of Rheinland's RP)

No--with a slight caveat.

I am all for creative rp that gets anointed as canon after popular and long-term acceptance. IF it adds to what is already there and does not otherwise restrict it.

We have had factions here propose that other faction bases be removed from areas they wanted to play in. Factions that wanted rights to deny weapons, ships and access to space they wanted to control. Factions who wanted others playing the NPC faction to be forced to join theirs.

Absolutely not.

If a faction comes up with a creative twist that is inclusive and it ADDS to what's there without forcing it--all for it. If it FORCES other players to stop what they do in deference to the faction--big no. And no matter how you couch the idea, their will be people who think their right exists to do this and will lobby by whatever means they need to get it once they realize they might be able to.

I am ALL for more creative freedom. I still remember playing a Hogosha and when hitting npc Bretonian shipping just at the Leeds gate being pmed over and over "That's oorp", "That's not your zoi". When I explained my Hogosha was also an "ultrnationalist who saw it as a duty and a chance to profit I was told over and over again, "Well its still against the rules for the Hogosha." That thinking does need to change.

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[casero]

But there must be another solution than taking the caps away from indies.

[worldstrider]

But there must be another solution than taking the caps away from indies.

It already has been done--the increased prices along with the really long lower paying trade runs does decrease the number of caps out there--or will given time.

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