Should official factions have more power?

[BaconSoda]

U r doin it wrong.

His RP shouldn't contradict ours. We are many; he is one. That entire system was, until we were forced out of it, RPed as a 101st installation. Restricted Military Airspace. I paid a billion credits out of my pocket for that system, and quite frankly, it's private property. I didn't pay to sponsor a park, I paid so that the 101st would have its own little plot to work in where nobody we didn't want, including other Outcasts, should need be, wouldn't be able to go. Land creates power. Factions, as it is, are not allowed to own land. See the problem? Screw the indies screwups. If we see a need to completely lock down any and all players within the system we should be able to do so.

Faction Regulation Committee? What happened to minimalism? The slimming down of the rules? This FRC would be ridiculously complex, and its members would be ridiculously busy.

I'm doing it wrong? Well, sir, I'd rather do it wrong than become a dictator as such. What right does a player really have to take away someone's right to correctly setup their ship and RP on this server? None. We have no right at all to do that. Not even the Admins have a right to do that without cause.

The idea that a player should theoretically get more power than an admin is...scary, to be honest. If I wanted to buy a Hessian Cruiser and RP a Hessian commander stationed in Omega-3, I should be able to. Am I contradicting canon RP? No, there are Hessian NPCs there. If I wanted to buy a Corsair Freighter and RP an artifact liaison to the Hogosha in Sigam-19, I should be able to without any questions asked. However, if I wanted to take a Corsair Gunboat to Tau-29 and sit outside Nago not hostile to the NPCs roflpwning Outcast smugglers as they come along, the player factions are able to take action against me. Is that so wrong? I don't understand the problem with the way things are now....

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.

[Sarawr!?]

I'm doing it wrong? Well, sir, I'd rather do it wrong than become a dictator as such. What right does a player really have to take away someone's right to correctly setup their ship and RP on this server? None. We have no right at all to do that. Not even the Admins have a right to do that without cause.

The idea that a player should theoretically get more power than an admin is...scary, to be honest. If I wanted to buy a Hessian Cruiser and RP a Hessian commander stationed in Omega-3, I should be able to. Am I contradicting canon RP? No, there are Hessian NPCs there. If I wanted to buy a Corsair Freighter and RP an artifact liaison to the Hogosha in Sigam-19, I should be able to without any questions asked. However, if I wanted to take a Corsair Legate to Tau-29 and sit outside Nago not hostile to the NPCs roflpwning Outcast smugglers as they come along, the player factions are able to take action against me. Is that so wrong? I don't understand the problem with the way things are now....

Now, if it were carried out this way, that would be perfect, but I honestly fear that giving factions power over indie players is a bad idea, because for all anybody knows, the said indie could just be doing something within the rules, that a faction member just happens not to like, and...I dunno, do you see what I'm getting at though?

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[worldstrider]

Now, if it were carried out this way, that would be perfect, but I honestly fear that giving factions power over indie players is a bad idea, because for all anybody knows, the said indie could just be doing something within the rules, that a faction member just happens not to like, and...I dunno, do you see what I'm getting at though?

It's already happened. The reason there are complaints and a recent thread about too many rules is because those factions screamed and fought with every means at their disposal to "stay in control".

From their point of view, those were "the good old days" because it was their faction, their friends, their rp and their rules. How rude for others to come along afterwards and want to change and affect that.

The admins have made consistent steps towards a more democratic balance and sometimes need a nudge but without fail--at the first appearance there might be an opportunity--some old faction rep will pop up and say, "Give us back control and we will fix it for you."

No they won't--they will fix it for themselves.

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[bluntpencil2001]

However, if I wanted to take a Corsair Gunboat to Tau-29 and sit outside Nago not hostile to the NPCs roflpwning Outcast smugglers as they come along, the player factions are able to take action against me. Is that so wrong?

To be honest, dealing with ooRP like that is the job of the admins, not factions.

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[Sarawr!?]

It's already happened. The reason there are complaints and a recent thread about too many rules is because those factions screamed and fought with every means at their disposal to "stay in control".

From their point of view, those were "the good old days" because it was their faction, their friends, their rp and their rules. How rude for others to come along afterwards and want to change and affect that.

The admins have made consistent steps towards a more democratic balance and sometimes need a nudge but without fail--at the first appearance there might be an opportunity--some old faction rep will pop up and say, "Give us back control and we will fix it for you."

No they won't--they will fix it for themselves.

Yeah, and frankly it really is just messed up, and like Blunt said, dealing with ooRP is the job of the admins, the official factions should have no right to act as a secondary server police, if somebody witnesses an oorp player, they should report it individually, just like anybody else, I can't tell you how many times I've seen factionalized players pulling oorp stunts and getting away with it, when an independant player would have hell rained down upon them for pulling the same things.

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[n00bl3t]

The price they pay is, naturally, that unlike indies they are subject to scrutiny by the community, and must constantly prove themselves responsible members of the community of face having their status revoked. I think more powers should come with more responsibilities - as a safeguard all official factions should be subject to periodic review and have to demonstrate that they still are deserving of their positions.

Independents are constantly scrutinised and factions are periodically reviewed? Hmm. No.

It already has been done--the increased prices along with the really long lower paying trade runs does decrease the number of caps out there--or will given time.

Lovely encouragement for power-traders. Those that can sit at a screen for hours on end and trade their way to a battleship get it, whilst others who RP are struggling to find one run to do so they can buy an MR and repair their ship. Eh.

Giving more power to Official factions to control the system they own would make sense though. Move the guard restricted ships to ANOTHER system. It can be one that already exists even. It is not hard to place a station with guard rep and some guard NPC patrols around it in a normal system and it achieves the EXACT same effect that guard systems have in reducing cap numbers currently.
Let Official factions have total control over their system and to enforce whatever laws they want within it.
I mean, why not? Guard systems tend not to be used in trade runs and you only go there with intention and with the guard ID required ships moved or available elsewhere too, it eliminates that issue completely.

/signed. (I see no problems with this, unless the only reason that you want control of your system is to control independent's purchasing choices.)

It really depends on the faction.

This is an important point. Case by case basis. Blanket rules against factions are either too harsh for one and too soft for another. The porridge needs to be adjusted for all.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[MacAulay]

I think the thread has been derailed - by the usual topics, i.e. who "controls" ships. "Complete" control, ie ownership, is an unenforceable pipe dream and not permitted anyway - and besides who wants to spend their time frowning at the fact that other players fly a ship by themselves and don't want to join you - maybe it's you who is at fault...maybe it's you who come across as an unimaginative ignoramus.

The other hijacker - the fractious, and ficticious indie/faction divide. With the changes in ship balance, the days of being your own independent one-man nation in your gunboat are over. Organisation is necessary to survive. Factions survive because they are organised...

I don't feel the thread has been hi-jacked at all. People have only made various points in one way or another regarding their own reasons for their vote. Others have responded to their opinions. Over all this thread has been a resounding success with some interesting points raised and many players like myself may well have formed different opinions on the whole matter since the topic was started.

The fact that we all have an opinion and we all have our own reasons ensures that players were going to post a multitude of reasons to back up their vote and others were going to respond to them.

As I say, this post has been a success, it has created a lively discussion that has so far stretched across many pages without any cases of inflammatory or insulting replies. In fact I think the first post that has even come close to offending me over this whole topic is the one I have quoted. Though offended is probably too srong a word, lets call it mildly irritated:)

Not trying to pick a fight with you Athenian as over all I have moslty agreed with posts you have made. I do feel though that implying another players is an 'unimaginative ignoramous' simply because he doesnt subscribe to your point of view is unnecessary and is conduct not expected of an officer and a gentleman. In short, its just not cricket old boy.

EDIT: Just read the transcript from skype about the Outlaw ID. I was actually going to suggest such a thing be implemented for players who systematically break any faction laws pertaining to the systems they are in. Its a bit dictatorial maybe but I think it is a necessary step in the right direction. I am sure it would be appreciated in outcast space by most of us.

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This really isn't something that needs to be taken super seriously because it's a game and most of us are just here to have fun. You should try smiling, you'll feel better about things (honest).

[Athenian]

Not trying to pick a fight with you Athenian as over all I have moslty agreed with posts you have made. I do feel though that implying another players is an 'unimaginative ignoramous' simply because he doesnt subscribe to your point of view is unnecessary and is conduct not expected of an officer and a gentleman. In short, its just not cricket old boy.

I don't think I made myself clear.

I'm talking about how people perceive things. While someone might believe that they are doing a particular thing for the general good, that can be interpreted by others in a way you might not like. One may be regarded as an ignoramus by others for all manner of reason - for being in a faction, for not being in a faction, for flying big ships, for not flying big ships. I wasn't actually calling anyone names, just suggesting that our self-image may be significantly different from what others believe of us.

Such is life.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Reverend Del]

There is a criminal ID, it has no tractor beam and it can be imposed for a period of time, with heavier repurcussions if removed.

Frankly we're currently discussing this issue onmce more in our little corner and some positive things are coming out. Expect to see some interesting ideas coming out after we've sifted through this lot and figured out what's new and what is already in place.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[MacAulay]

I don't think I made myself clear.

I'm talking about how people perceive things. While someone might believe that they are doing a particular thing for the general good, that can be interpreted by others in a way you might not like. One may be regarded as an ignoramus by others for all manner of reason - for being in a faction, for not being in a faction, for flying big ships, for not flying big ships. I wasn't actually calling anyone names, just suggesting that our self-image may be significantly different from what others believe of us.

Such is life.

Yeah I see what you saying. The world would be a better place without perceptions and opinions. Not mine ofcourse, but everybody elses :rolleyes:

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This really isn't something that needs to be taken super seriously because it's a game and most of us are just here to have fun. You should try smiling, you'll feel better about things (honest).