' Wrote:Uhhh, Balter, I don't think you got my post. I'm in the IND, and I'm NOT an Admin...
It's not an All-Admin faction, and we are not immune to pirating, we are not immune to anything. All we're saying is that we have a long standing RP of bribery which allows us to act the way we do ingame.
There's plenty of folk here that have established "long standing" role play. I've got a few characters with long standing role play ... but just a couple months ago I had to freaking defend my "long standing" role play because some guy flamed me in the threads ... then the admins told me I couldn't have my ship and equipment makeup. My character in question has been role played for over a year in that configuration and not a word was said about it ... then some noob comes along and makes a big deal out of it. So what am I to think ... if my "long standing" role play means jack ... what should I consider others? Special? More "acceptable" because of who it is?
And yes ... my "long standing" characters from further back were threatened by a certain IND character BECAUSE I was pirating him. He told me the RoS would be called upon to deal with me ... and then he mentioned his faction was heavily made up of admins. So what am I supposed to think?
' Wrote:No Baltar, here is the example, if players would get on and actually play, instead of bitching here about
everything they can possibly can, then some harmony might creep in. Apart from that, everyone gets
on a 'bash whatever the current dish of the day' is, with usually no research, even less thought, and a
view to increasing their post count.
Oh, and that was a member, and a faction leader, not an admin, and if people cannot keep the two apart,
then we have little chance.
Till some of the above gets into respective heads, I am not going to hold my breathe ...
Hoodlum
Well ... soon as my move from Louisiana to Colorado is complete and I'm not stuck on my laptop and I get to an IP that's not wigging out ... I'll be in-game more. But my comments come from past experience with IND ... so my "research" has to do with actual interaction with one or two of your members ... granted it's been a while.
I know there are admins in various factions ... and for the most part they keep their two roles separate. But there are occasions a sanction happens from an encounter online. Pretty unsettling to see a sanction where the admin doing the sanction states, "and don't try to deny it ... I was there." If an admin was present and participating in an event ... that particular admin needs to bow down out of conflicting interest and allow another admin adjudicate the event. Not pointing fingers at anyone ... but I've seen a few sanctions that raised my eyebrows.
' Wrote:I find it funny that the IND comes under attack for being an Admin faction.
Current active Admin count numbers 5. Which is much less than half our axtive Roster. Some of those non-admins have gotten their place by being very odd but all by showing impeccable RP skills.
The IND is the longest serving trading faction on this server, it's gone through a few iterations, but it's always held RP to be the highest goal, above and beyond the mighty credit, we have three years worth of very odd diplomacies to back up and we have a strong relationship with the Outcasts. The Corsairs are not so freindly but they don't shoot us, and we do haul their baubles for them on occasion. Normally instead of paying a piracy demand. We've blagged our way out of many a smuggling rap, always without quickdocking. We talk it up in eveyr system we find folks in. We've blown up more pirates than I can count and we've been blown up by an equal amount (possibly more). We've paid more in piracy money than most folks have ever seen, we've never ever called in the cap spam to avenge a piracy, and we really really HATE Phate. He steals all our goodies.
Why is it we get beat on for all this? We do exactly what is required of an official faction, we hold ourselves to the highest standard and we seek to maintain that standard wherever we are.
Robert Fitzgerald's post was intelligent and thoughtful which was why I answered it. Baltar's point was misguided and possibly born of tiredness. Cosmos you need to look inside your own house before you level any criticism at anyone. You are not the shining star you seem to think you are.
Um ... 5 admins on a single faction? That's actually quite a lot considering many factions only have 5-10 members. And just because I'm NOT an IND member ... don't call me a non-role player or having poor role playing abilities ... as one IND member informed me a while back. Ever since my encounter with IND on that day ... I avoid you guys like the plague. Don't wanna get on the wrong end and visit Bastille for a week.
' Wrote:I like that I opened this thread and found out I am an Admin. When can I start sanctioning people. Look I have been in IND quite a long time now, and I can guarantee you, if more people did it the way IND do, this would be a much better server. Which, of course, is why this is not a thread criticizing IND's conduct. No where do I see anyone saying the IND dont rp well, powertrade, abuse game mechanics, cause problems in general. People of course have found every way to criticize IND without criticizing those things. Adrian earlier said with power comes responsibility, well I think the fact that no one is complaining about the IND's action, shows that the faction is using it's ID and roleplay in the appropriate way, SO WHERE THE HELL IS THE PROBLEM?
Whatever, Zelot ... so I'm wrong about IND being 100% admin ... but there's more admin in IND than any other faction. I find it interesting that some role play is accepted and some is not. Role play is subjective and only works if OTHERS are willing to play along. I disbanded my faction long ago because nobody would freaking accept the role play I was establishing ... especially SA (who in my opinion were nothing but a bunch of PVP blood thirsty zealots). I even tried to purchase Cassini for my faction ... but it didn't matter what I did ... admins constantly backlashed me with some new excuse as to why I could not purchase the blasted place. Now its owned by a faction with an admin or two in it. I freaking give up. Only other faction that gave us any enjoyment with role play was TAZ. Anyway ... I finally gave up and divided up the billion or so credits I'd amassed to purchase Cassini to those that actually cared about helpin a guy out and left ... Spear, Mal and Dieter got the majority of those funds.
The ONLY thing I've got about IND was from a long time ago with my encounter with one of your trade vessels ... I'll keep his name out of it to avoid any flames ... but this gent REALLY rubbed me wrong with his attitude as I attempted to pirate him. And back then the IND wore the Interspace ID ... which clearly stated they were enemies with Outcasts. I'm glad you've got your own ID now. Wish I'da gotten the ID for my faction back then ... but was told it wouldn't fit in future versions of Disco. Now how many "personally" made faction ID's outside the vanilla ID's exist? Sorry ... but this is just a hard pill to swallow.
'tis not an Admin' faction, 'tis a faction that happens to have many an Admin' with'n it's ranks.
EDIT@Baltar: I'm pretty sure any threats the IND made at you would have been in RP ones, since I doubt Igiss would be happy if he found out admins were truly abusing power.
Quote:That being said, IND is a small, small division of IC, and does not represent the larger NPC faction.
Good answer. I will take this as the actions of IND do not set a precedent for the Interspace NPC faction. Is that a valid conclusion from this messy thread?
' Wrote:Good answer. I will take this as the actions of IND do not set a precedent for the Interspace NPC faction. Is that a valid conclusion from this messy thread?
' Wrote:Oh wow, my paranoia detector is off the limits!
'tis not an Admin' faction, 'tis a faction that happens to have many an Admin' with'n it's ranks.
EDIT@Baltar: I'm pretty sure any threats the IND made at you would have been in RP ones, since I doubt Igiss would be happy if he found out admins were truly abusing power.
Geez ... have you read anything I've written? The particular IND character I encountered departed from role play ... and it was quite CLEAR he strayed from it. When he threatened me by stating that he could have me sanctioned ... I think that's OORP/OOC ... whatcha think? No ... this guy wasn't an admin ... but I knew full well a large population of IND were admins. Keep in mind ... the admin team at this point were a completely different set of admins back then. Most of our current admins were just regular members like myself.
' Wrote:I should think so.
The first two or so pages were actually quite clear enough in their conclusion... for all but conspiracy theorists, I believe...
Conspiracy ... click the link for the definition. I'm not saying they "formulated a plan" to do wrong. The difference between manslaughter and murder is the word "intent." I'm not saying they intended anything ... I am saying that it happens. Manslaughter is accidental ... murder is intended.
' Wrote:We've not made any inroads to Gallia yet. so docking rights will have to be negotiated.
I'd expect that to become a source of tension with the Junkers, as they're already preparing for full-bore damage control mode once Gallia integrates with the rest of Sirius. Having an organization affiliated with the widest-spread corporation in Sirius cozying up with the Crown would disturb a lot of graves the Junkers would sooner see forgotten until the end of time.
Granted, it's also established that the Congress is a collection of Sirian Junker bosses and axemen, not Gallic. There's a lot of inroads that need to be made on all sides.
This thread is one of 'admins flame' threads which appeared last time on the forum.
It means for me, that is a tension between community and admins. Since I was/am an head admin of game community playing CS1.6, it is not unusual for me. Such situations happen from time to time. When community is small and everybody want its to grow, especially admins team, then all are trying to be helpful and understanding, when community become big and server popular, situation changes. I would like to say there is not community without admins, and there are not admins without players.
I am suspicious to the factions which try to role play different to their NPC affiliation. Especially if it goes to 'get more freedom' direction. But I know situation is changing and there will be more and more factions which want to play something different than old boring pattern.
It is normal that factions with admins as members have more power and possibilities than others. Some people are frustrated because of that. I would like to say, you cannot change it, you cannot break a wall using your own head. You have to accept this. You have to work and try more, you have to be more active to get the same. They simply don't have to prove any idea, since their idea is proved by self for them.
Finishing this thought - I don't know whether anyone understand what I meant, since English is terrible for me - let them play what they want, let them have huge money (that is only digits), if you don't like it, just don't play with them. If you can't change things, accept them.
At the end I want to disagree with one thing: Zoners Guard ID doesn't mean you are completely free. If you RP it serious, you have many restrictions. Trading between Zoners' bases, avoiding house space and also not so friendly outcasts/corsairs home systems. And you are stuck in this funny unarmed unpowered ship that can be pirated by everyone, and even NPCs are deadly danger for it.
Baltar, are you only allowed to sanction people if you are on a specific character? I know for a fact that the admins are not invincible to sanctions (search for Caylith, BULLDOGNK in the sanction thread) and also that they do not sanction without a screenshot. A while back I was on my Arms Dealer (IND tagged incidentally) and someone blew me up with no engagement notice, with a cruiser. While Hood saw it, he forgot to get screenshots, and I was so angry that I did aswell. We couldn't sanction the guy.
Also, IND RP is not dictated by admins. Go and search the forums, and you will find most of the RP was made before the admins ever became admins.
Finally, any IND that threatened you with "leave me alone, I have a ton of admins in my faction" should have his name forwarded to Hoodlum, as that is unacceptable in my opinion. I have said this before: do not base a faction on one individual. Come meet the Sethy sometime and the children can hurl insults at you.
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